Topic: For the love of god CBC....

[Strike]

Not to throw stones at PAFOs, but in my opinion, many of them don't have the requisite background to be credible in the fields upon which they're commenting.  Why do we have naval PAFOs providing media updates about land operations in Afghanistan?  Even if the guy is knowedgeable, the naval uniform automatically sucks away his credibility when discussing infantry operations.  The same is true of the army PAFO talking to reporters about hunting submarines.  I've always felt that the idea of taking officer candidates with journalism degrees and making them instant PAFOs is a mistake.  Every PAFO should have an operational background first and then then transfer to PAFO later.  In this way the former combat arms officer turned PAFO can give credible answers on questions of land operations, not because he read the brief before the reporters, but because he's lived it.

Pusser, what about those PAffOs (note the extra "f", or PAO as they prefer to be referred to as) who may have spent the majority of their careers on an Army base, working to support the Army but are wearing an Air Force uniform?  (This is a trick question...)  The point is, if someone is going to be talking about sub hunting or advance to contact, it should be a SME, not a PAO.  And if it is the PAO then there are really only two reasons that this is happening:
1 -- The PAO likes to be in front of the camera (and this should follow up with said PAO being briefed about what their job really is); or
2 -- No SME wanted to talk to the media (unfortunately, the more likely cause), which meant that the 'someone' stuck answering the questions is the PAO.

As for the journalism types who come in, I used to think the same as you, until I finished a nine month course and saw that those with the military background can learn just as much as the DEOs can learn from us.

(Milnews and Cdn Aviator, I agree with you 100%!)

[milnews.ca]

2 -- No SME wanted to talk to the media (unfortunately, the more likely cause), which meant that the 'someone' stuck answering the questions is the PAO.

Very good point - SME's (or their bosses) can say no in a way that PAO's can't.  And that doesn't just happen in the military, either.

[Pusser]

Pusser, what about those PAffOs (note the extra "f", or PAO as they prefer to be referred to as) who may have spent the majority of their careers on an Army base, working to support the Army but are wearing an Air Force uniform?  (This is a trick question...)  The point is, if someone is going to be talking about sub hunting or advance to contact, it should be a SME, not a PAO.  And if it is the PAO then there are really only two reasons that this is happening:
1 -- The PAO likes to be in front of the camera (and this should follow up with said PAO being briefed about what their job really is); or
2 -- No SME wanted to talk to the media (unfortunately, the more likely cause), which meant that the 'someone' stuck answering the questions is the PAO.

As for the journalism types who come in, I used to think the same as you, until I finished a nine month course and saw that those with the military background can learn just as much as the DEOs can learn from us.

(Milnews and Cdn Aviator, I agree with you 100%!)

I completely agree that it is the SME who should be doing the talking, but that unfortunately, is too often not the case.  Perhaps that's the problem that really needs to be fixed?

Further to my point on uniforms, we must remember that TV is a visual medium.  It's not just what you say, but how you look that conveys the message.  A neuro-surgeon can go on TV and will be seen as credible when providing commentary on his area of expertise in either a suit or scrubs, even if he's wrong.  But if you dress him up in a clown suit, he will instantly lose credibility and no one will take his commentary seriously, even if he is absoloutely correct.  McLuhan was right, the medium is the message.  I'm not saying that naval PAOs are not capable of commenting on land operations.  I'm only saying that the uniform they are wearing can possibly detract from their credibility and what the public perceives as a result.

[Strike]

I'm only saying that the uniform they are wearing can possibly detract from their credibility and what the public perceives as a result.

I completely understand where you're coming from, but unfortunately there is no purple uniform for PAOs to wear and it makes no sense having them change the colour of uniform every time they get posted.  It's just something that has to be accepted.

Sure, it would be nice to post Army PAOs at Army units, Navy PAOs at Navy units, etc, but then you don't get a very well-rounded PAO which hurts the CF as a whole, especially during joint (Isn't everything joint these days?) operations.

[CountDC]

 

Derailment warning.

There's another coming to one of the boats as the Cox'n, so he'll have to change out as well.

Back to regularly scheduled programming.

MM

As Cox'n?  Didn't think that was possible.  Why would he have to change out?

[Jim Seggie]

I just received a call from a local station wanting me to comment on the end of the combat mission in Afghanistan. As a serving member, I declined.

[medicineman]

As Cox'n?  Didn't think that was possible.  Why would he have to change out?

Yup - a previous Cox'n of VIC was a PA too.  Because it's a Navy position, if they take the job and aren't Navy, they have to change out.  They just aren't the boat's PA anymore, that's all.  Don't forget, medical is kind of a secondary duty for a submariner PA - they're a watchkeepr first.

MM

[FSTO]

I completely understand where you're coming from, but unfortunately there is no purple uniform for PAOs to wear and it makes no sense having them change the colour of uniform every time they get posted.  It's just something that has to be accepted.

Sure, it would be nice to post Army PAOs at Army units, Navy PAOs at Navy units, etc, but then you don't get a very well-rounded PAO which hurts the CF as a whole, especially during joint (Isn't everything joint these days?) operations.

To many in the Navy, Joint means the Army is running the show.

[Oldgateboatdriver]

Have things changed from  my days? PA are Non-commissioned officers?

Only Chief Petty Officers (or, I suppose Chief Warrant Officers) can be Cox'ns.

IMO, the way to go with PA's if we want to maintain their "professional" appearance is to issue them with a set of uniforms from each element. This way, they can put on whichever one happens to be appropriate to the day's affairs they handle. A bit cumbersome, but potentially worth it for image's sake.  Besides, IMHO, they should only need DEU's - none of that nonsense of wearing "combat" clothing unless they are specifically "at the front". Rant on - Nothing galls me more than seeing people giving public addresses or briefings or press conference on base or at headquarters dressed in "combats". In the field is another matter, but have you ever seen one of the American or French or British senior officer giving such a presentation at an HQ or base office dressed in anything else than service dress? (Or for that matter, when was the last time you saw a Pentagon press conference given by uniformed personnel NOT wearing a tie? I can't recall one)  - Rant off.
 

[milnews.ca]

Rant on - Nothing galls me more than seeing people giving public addresses or briefings or press conference on base or at headquarters dressed in "combats". In the field is another matter, but have you ever seen one of the American or French or British senior officer giving such a presentation at an HQ or base office dressed in anything else than service dress? (Or for that matter, when was the last time you saw a Pentagon press conference given by uniformed personnel NOT wearing a tie? I can't recall one)  - Rant off.

At the Pentagon most of the time, it's ties-on-in-fancy-dress, but never say never, either - note official pix from the Pentagon's briefing room (no, they're not all from the same briefing ) :

[Oldgateboatdriver]

I stand corrected.

To atone, I shall drop and give you an extra 30 tonight when I come back from my jog.

[milnews.ca]

I stand corrected.

To atone, I shall drop and give you an extra 30 tonight when I come back from my jog.

No need - it appears to happen (based on a rough look at the assembled PR pix) only about 5-10% of the time, so you're still mostly right 

[N. McKay]

Have things changed from  my days? PA are Non-commissioned officers?

I read PA to mean physician assistant.

[Strike]

Have things changed from  my days? PA are Non-commissioned officers?

Only Chief Petty Officers (or, I suppose Chief Warrant Officers) can be Cox'ns.

 

They were referring to PAs in the sense of Physician's Assistant (Damn!  Beat me to it!), not PA as in Public Affairs. The closest to NCMs being PAOs are the people from Army News (oooh, I just got a flash of a certain geo-tech in my head.    )

[Oldgateboatdriver]

Thank you all for clearing my confusion. I my days, the trade was called Med A's for Medical assistant.

To confuse things more, in the Navy we called then tiffies.

[N. McKay]

Thank you all for clearing my confusion. I my days, the trade was called Med A's for Medical assistant.

Isn't it one of those trades that changes with rank, like stokers (mechanic-technician-artificer)?

If so, could someone outline the progression please?

[CDN Aviator]

I my days, the trade was called Med A's for Medical assistant.

Med A is now called Med Tech. PAs are a different group.

[PMedMoe]

Med A is now called Med Tech. PAs are a different group.

PAs are Med Techs who have undergone the two-year Physician's Assistant training.  Once they are done, they get a new MOSID.

Almost all medical trades have the same first five numbers of the MOSID.  It is the second, two number sequence that differentiates the various trades:

Med Tech, PA, PMed Tech, Lab Tech, X-Ray Tech, etc.....

Gets a little confusing sometimes.   

[medicineman]

Have things changed from  my days? PA are Non-commissioned officers?

Only Chief Petty Officers (or, I suppose Chief Warrant Officers) can be Cox'ns.

IMO, the way to go with PA's if we want to maintain their "professional" appearance is to issue them with a set of uniforms from each element.

PSSST - PA's are Physician Assistants - they are WO's and above - no more 6B  Sgts for those that remember them.  And yeah, Cox'n of subs are C2's normally - if they've got the requisite submarine time and the rank, they can be asked if they want the job.  I do have uniforms for every element, though my Hair Force stuff is still that hideous blue.

PA(ff) O's are Public Affairs Officers and yes, hold a commission.

Didn't think you were THAT old  .

MM

Edit - sorry I'm beating a dead horse.  I'll hang my head in shame now.

[Oldgateboatdriver]

Well MM, what do you think the first three letters of my  username stand for

Actually, I just think I joined when I was very young - I may have been one of the last boy seaman!

[ctjj.stevenson]

I will just say this: if I am correct, I remember reading that the CBC's Chief Correspondant (i.e., Peter Mansbridge) used to be an officer of the RCN. Therefore, there should be a policy at the CBC that with anything Navy related, the staff of the CBC should ask Mr. Mansbridge if they are correct in the information that they are telling Canadians.

[CDN Aviator]

I will just say this: if I am correct, I remember reading that the CBC's Chief Correspondant (i.e., Peter Mansbridge) used to be an officer of the RCN. Therefore, there should be a policy at the CBC that with anything Navy related, the staff of the CBC should ask Mr. Mansbridge if they are correct in the information that they are telling Canadians.

He served in 1966-67. Mansbridge served less time than the former Corporal-turned -journalist-who's- name-makes-kittens-die-if-mentioned, and we know how much we regard him as an expert.

[Halifax Tar]

SCOTT TAYLOR

I hate cats

Anyways... My in-laws got me his book for xmas... Talk about faking a thank you...

Oh it was signed by him as well

[ArmyVern]

...
I hate cats
...

We could plan a book-burning in my office when I get back from leave at the end of the month. Just sayin'.

Had to delete the rest of your post containing name and 'him' because I like cats. 

[milnews.ca]

I will just say this: if I am correct, I remember reading that the CBC's Chief Correspondant (i.e., Peter Mansbridge) used to be an officer of the RCN. Therefore, there should be a policy at the CBC that with anything Navy related, the staff of the CBC should ask Mr. Mansbridge if they are correct in the information that they are telling Canadians.

How current do you think Mr. Mansbridge stays on naval issues, language and terminology 45 years after he was in?  I've been out more than 20 years, and a LOT has changed....