Topic: Electric hybrid snowmobiles

[Good2Golf]

That could work.  Hybrid vehicle, gas for distance, and when using gas have solar panels exposed.  When you want to go stealth from mid-April to mid-September you hit the battery, cover the panels, move in quietly.

FD, I fixed it for you for ops above the Arctic Circle....otherwise you'll be stealthy 100% of the time when the sun is down... 

Cheers
G2G

[GAP]

forever picking the nits.....details....details.....you do realize it doesn't matter from mid-September to mid-April cause it's dark....they CAN'T SEE YOU!!!


ah....solved that little gem for them......

[Good2Golf]

forever picking the nits.....details....details.....you do realize it doesn't matter from mid-September to mid-April cause it's dark....they CAN'T SEE YOU!!!


ah....solved that little gem for them......

GAP, quick, let's go out and patent "Temporally-Variable Stealth Technology"!!!   

[GAP]

GAP, quick, let's go out and patent "Temporally-Variable Stealth Technology"!!!   

ohhhh....you're quick........such a techie, marketable name for darkness......it'd probably work too!!

[a Sig Op]

FD, I fixed it for you for ops above the Arctic Circle....otherwise you'll be stealthy 100% of the time when the sun is down... 

Cheers
G2G

And of course 3 or so months of the year, snow is in surprisingly short supply...

[DirtyDog]

Moving quietly with a TDI engine would simply involve putting sound insulation around the engine compartment and installing a high efficiency muffler, both probably simpler and cheaper than a hybrid showmobile.

Exactly.  It wouldn't have to be TDI, although that might suit the military better, but an even less complicated and less expensive solution would be simply to modify existing snowmobile engines which are getting pretty good these days.

This hybrid idea is ridiculous to the extreme.

[Jim Seggie]

This hybrid idea is ridiculous to the extreme.

And the competition for the extension cord should be entertaining.....

[FlyingDutchman]

FD, I fixed it for you for ops above the Arctic Circle....otherwise you'll be stealthy 100% of the time when the sun is down... 

Cheers
G2G

To be fair they can be used below the circle, Canada does tend to be covered by snow at least once a year.

[dogger1936]

Seriously where does this stuff come from? I'm guessing half a million on stealth snowmobiles (we had em up north...they were called snowshoes and sleds) fits perfectly into this cost cutting stuff.

[Thucydides]

I'm starting to think a snowmobile is a waste of time altogether. Petawawa and other bases are being overrun with ATV's and vehicles like Gators are/were used in Afghanistan. ATV's can be used year round, and having one light vehicle fleet rather than two or multiple types simplifies logistics greatly.

The Argo ATV is probably the best vehicle to fit this category; it has ultra low ground pressure, is amphibious, uses skid steering so you can throw a set of tracks over the wheels for extreme conditions and (for Technoviking) is large enough to carry a C-16 and a decent amount of ammunition. There is no reason you can't include a trailer as well for the other stuff (besides a C-16  ) that you might want to take. Use a small diesel engine with an efficient muffler and a soundproof engine enclosure and you are 100% there.

[X Royal]

I'm starting to think a snowmobile is a waste of time altogether. Petawawa and other bases are being overrun with ATV's and vehicles like Gators are/were used in Afghanistan. ATV's can be used year round, and having one light vehicle fleet rather than two or multiple types simplifies logistics greatly.

The Argo ATV is probably the best vehicle to fit this category; it has ultra low ground pressure, is amphibious, uses skid steering so you can throw a set of tracks over the wheels for extreme conditions and (for Technoviking) is large enough to carry a C-16 and a decent amount of ammunition. There is no reason you can't include a trailer as well for the other stuff (besides a C-16  ) that you might want to take. Use a small diesel engine with an efficient muffler and a soundproof engine enclosure and you are 100% there.

I'll have to disagree here.
An Argo will never do things a snowmobile can do. Although Argo's are decent vehicles they sure lack in speed. If used in a role where stealth is a factor & things go to crap, speed could be your only option to safety.
As for a diesel motor these tend to suffer in extreme cold conditions when they are allowed to become cold before starting up.
Same would apply to an electric snowmobile. For any amount of range, speed & carrying capacity would have to be greatly sacrificed. Refueling would also pose problems with electrics. A gas engine can haul extra fuel or could be resupplied by caches or airdrops. Not a good option for electrics.
Atv's also fall far short of snowmobiles on performance on snow & ice.
If the use is for Arctic conditions with combat operations in mind a snowmobile fits the needs best. As already stated to reduce noise extra insulation & better mufflers on existing engines would be the best & most cost efficient option.

[X Royal]

Another thing to consider would be weather conditions.
During a windy situation in the Arctic other sounds would be severely masked.
During extremely still weather the sound of a completely quite vehicle(engine noise) would be nullified by the noise created by it's ski's, tracks or wheels moving over an extremely cold surface.

[Thucydides]

Stipulated, but I am thinking of the bigger logistics picture:

1. All other vehicles and almost all generators now use diesel engines and JP-8 fuel.

2. We are currently supporting dozens of "mini fleets" of specialized vehicles, which entails huge logistics and maintainance bills. Why add to the puzzle with more mini fleets? (On a meta level we really need to get our s**t together with trucks, LAVs, AFV's etc. before even looking at the ultra light fleet)

3. While an ARGO isn't very fast, snowmobiles are not very amphibious. Throw in tracks fitted over the wheels for extreme conditions (deep sand, snow, swamps etc.) and with the ARGO you have one vehicle that can operate in virtually every sort of terrain we are likely to encounter. The only vehicle that comes even close is the BV-206 and various related vehicles (Viking and ST Kinetics Bronco), which are much larger and more complex.

If we are going to spend a boatload of money for improbable vehicles like a Toyota Prius on tracks, then we might as well design an ARGO like ATV which addresses your concerns; higher top speed, Diesel engine with preheater and why not make it an 8X8 to carry a section's worth of kit and ammunition or 2 stretcher patients.

[X Royal]

Although I agree that logistics are very important but when the intended mission is "military operations in Canada's Arctic" function of the equipment has to take overall precedence. It is not an environment where compromise is a viable option.
The Agro for combat operations in the Arctic would be a disaster. On top of lack of speed, amphibious operations with an Argo would also be not advisable & also not very likely needed. If you think their slow on land you never been in one when it's swimming. They do not handle rough water & entry and exit places have to be well chosen. Staying dry in them under anything but ideal conditions while swimming would be next to impossible.

[X Royal]

To me the big question is why the thrust for "covert military operations in Canada's Arctic" when so little has been done to expand our conventional operational capabilities in the Canadian Arctic?
The logistical tail is quite long there and for any prolonged response other than on a small scale much infrastructure is needed.
Manned patrol bases (manned on a rotational basis) capable of handling greatly increased staffing quickly would be a far better method of protecting our sovereign territory than this covert operations scheme.
Rations, fuel and other required equipment and supplies could be pre-positioned to somewhat limit the logistical needs required for increased activities.
But I'm sure that's just a pipe dream as that would cost more money & staffing than the covert operations scheme.

[Jim Seggie]

To me the big question is why the thrust for "covert military operations in Canada's Arctic" when so little has been done to expand our conventional operational capabilities in the Canadian Arctic?
 

The Good Idea Fairy landed on somebody's shoulder and was not knocked out by a whack upside the fairy head with a cast iron frying pan.