Author Topic: Ontario Election  (Read 11777 times)

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Offline Thucydides

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Ontario Election
« on: September 01, 2011, 15:59:48 »
The Ontario election will be interesting. Ontarians seem to vote for one party Federally and another Provincially, but eight years of the current Provincial Liberals have tanked Ontario's economy and turned the province into a "Have Not" province receiving Federal Equalization payments.

Now on the eve of an election, the McGuinty government does this:

http://toronto-tory.blogspot.com/2011/09/dalton-mcguinty-introduces-secret-tax.html

Quote
Dalton McGuinty introduces secret tax right before election

We all know it's in Dalton McGuinty's nature to raise taxes. And we all know it's in his nature to lie about taxes.

But I don't think anybody saw this blunder coming. Right before the provincial election, Tim Hudak revealed today that Dalton McGuinty has introduced another secret tax on smart meters.

As if smart meters weren't bad enough - they've increased hydro rates by 150% and they cost every household $200 to install - but now, Dalton McGuinty has added a new tax on smart meters that will cost families $132 million. This is literally a tax on McGuinty's tax machines.

To make matters worse, just like eco-taxes, the HST, and the health premium, this is a secret tax - McGuinty kept it entirely hidden. In fact, the Ontario PCs revealed that the only place this secret tax is mentioned is in the footnote in the Public Accounts document, which is four volumes of 300+ pages of government spending. Unbelievably, McGuinty couldn't even wait until after the election to raise taxes again.

Take a look for yourself and let me know what you think about McGuinty's latest tax grab.
Dagny, this is not a battle over material goods. It's a moral crisis, the greatest the world has ever faced and the last. Our age is the climax of centuries of evil. We must put an end to it, once and for all, or perish - we, the men of the mind. It was our own guilt. We produced the wealth of the world - but we let our enemies write its moral code.

Offline Baden Guy

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Re: Ontario Election
« Reply #1 on: September 01, 2011, 16:05:07 »
Ah yes a totally unbiased source.  :(
CBC   BBC  New York Times
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Offline milnews.ca

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Re: Ontario Election
« Reply #2 on: September 01, 2011, 16:17:13 »
<resource tangent>
Here's a page o' links I've pulled together to keep track of the election (my focus is in my backyard in the north), but there's also some decent predictor/poll tracking links - any suggested add on's appreciated.
</resource tangent>
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Offline E.R. Campbell

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Re: Ontario Election
« Reply #3 on: September 01, 2011, 16:29:09 »
Despite Dalton McWhimpy McGuity's manifest weaknesses the polls say that PC leader Tim Hudak is only running neck and neck ~ possibly because Hudak is a clown who offers bad policy choices, some worse than the Liberals' offerings.

Ontario Tories made a poor choice in 2009, not necessarily in rejecting John Tory but, rather, in selecting a leader who is too far from the Ontario mainstream, the Leslie Frost, John Robarts, Bill Davis Ontario mainstream which still exists. Miller, Petersen, Rae, Harris, Eves, McGuinty and Hudak represent the swings of a pendulum - sometimes (Rae and McGuinty) too far to the left, others (Miller and Hudak) too far to the right. I think Ontarians want to drift back to the safe, comfortable middle, neither Hudak nor McGuinty really wants to be there but McGuinty is, at least, the devil they know.

After eight years tossing McGuinty out should be child's play; that Tim Hudak is having trouble doing that says more about him and the Ontario PC Party machine than it does about Ontario politics.

Maybe, I hope, Hudak can prevail; if so it will be because Ontarians are, properly, sick and tired of Dalton McGuinty, not because Tim Hudak has anything to offer. By the way, I'm a paid up, card carrying Ontario PC Party member and I will vote PC on election day, despite the party's 'leader.'
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Offline milnews.ca

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Re: Ontario Election
« Reply #4 on: September 01, 2011, 16:45:18 »
Ontario Tories made a poor choice in 2009, not necessarily in rejecting John Tory but, rather, in selecting a leader who is too far from the Ontario mainstream, the Leslie Frost, John Robarts, Bill Davis Ontario mainstream which still exists .... After eight years tossing McGuinty out should be child's play; that Tim Hudak is having trouble doing that says more about him and the Ontario PC Party machine than it does about Ontario politics.
In fact, some of the party are already starting to at least nibble at their young ....
Quote
Every family has its spats, Progressive Conservative Leader Tim Hudak said Wednesday after former PC premier Ernie Eves ripped the party over what he said was the shabby treatment of long-serving MPP Norm Sterling.

“It’s tough when you have a contest within the family,” Hudak said at an Etobicoke campaign event.

“We have a party where you have to win the local nomination, that even sitting incumbents can be challenged. And it’s tough when you lose somebody you’ve been sitting around the table with,” Hudak said.

Sterling lost a bitter nomination fight with libertarian candidate Jack MacLaren for his Ottawa-area riding, ending more than 30 years as a member of provincial parliament.

MacLaren is an ally of MPP Randy Hillier, whose backing of Hudak clinched the leadership for him, and there has been grumbling Hudak could have done more for the veteran Sterling.

Eves, Ontario premier from 2002-03, was quoted recently lamenting Sterling’s ouster.

“The treatment that Norm got from his own party was not very polite, was not fair, it was not loyal, it was not compassionate, it was not even and it was not honest,” Eves was quoted as saying by yourottawaregion.com ....

The Liberals, meanwhile, are painting the Tories with a broad brush as Tea Party-ists....
Quote
Tim Hudak's campaign is importing their campaign strategy from the right wing extremist Tea Party movement, bringing in strategist Michael Prell.

Prell, the owner of Sterling Communications, sells himself as a "strategist for the Tea Party Patriots" and lists Hudak campaign manager Mark Spiro as his "best friend and business partner." (Acknowledgements, Underdogma, BenBella Books, 2011)

Before joining the Hudak campaign, Prell worked with many Tea Party politicians, including recently receiving a book endorsement from Michelle Bachmann.

The extreme right wing Tea Party movement in the US is routinely exposed for lying, being incoherent, vacuous and deeply divisive.

Yesterday former PC Premier Ernie Eves decried that Hudak's PCs are becoming "the Tea Party version of Ontario politics," pointing to how Hudak and right wing extremist MPP Randy Hillier ousted long-time progressive Conservative MPP Norm Sterling.

As usual, Hudak tried to weasel out of responding to Eves' charge.
Spin check:  saying criticism is "directed at those few individuals who decided that the Tea Party version of Ontario politics would be good in that particular riding" =/= "PCs are becoming "the Tea Party version of Ontario politics" ".

My  :2c: - unless Hudak improves, based on ERC's "devil we know" observation, Liberal minority for Ontario.
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Offline recceguy

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Re: Ontario Election
« Reply #5 on: September 01, 2011, 17:40:36 »
................and in the last Federal election, everyone was polling a minority CPC or even a minority Lib gov't right up to the final night. That should have told people to quit listening to polls. ::)

I speak to a broad spectrum of people down here and in the most part, they hate McGuinty and can't wait to toss him out. His Finance Minister, Duncan, has done nothing except throw money around, take credit for projects he opposed and launched nothing but ad hominem attacks on his opponents. No substance or plan. McGuinty's other shining star and trench fighter "Wonder Woman" S. Puppatello has already quit politics and isn't running again. They're out of gas already.

But I only guess, just like the polls...........and I'm about as unbiased and scientific as they are too ;)
"Political Correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end." 2007 winning entry, Texas A&M University - most appropriate definition of a contemporary term.

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Offline frank1515

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Re: Ontario Election
« Reply #6 on: September 02, 2011, 07:46:16 »
I actually have no idea who I'm going to vote for this election... Like Mr. Campbell stated prior, it's either the Devil we know or take a chance on the one we don't know. In any case, it's going to make for an interesting election night.
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Offline Thucydides

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Re: Ontario Election
« Reply #7 on: September 04, 2011, 23:26:28 »
Ah yes a totally unbiased source.  :(

The Public Accounts document is biased?
Dagny, this is not a battle over material goods. It's a moral crisis, the greatest the world has ever faced and the last. Our age is the climax of centuries of evil. We must put an end to it, once and for all, or perish - we, the men of the mind. It was our own guilt. We produced the wealth of the world - but we let our enemies write its moral code.

Offline milnews.ca

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Re: Ontario Election
« Reply #8 on: September 13, 2011, 06:51:17 »
Latest CTV/Globe/CP24/Nanos Poll attached - folks starting to get tired of Dalton + some Hudak mistakes = ~1:4 respondents saying they're not sure who the most trustworthy leader is + ~1:4 respondents saying they're not sure who has the best vision for Ontario...

Quote
.... Ontario Ballot Question: For those parties you would consider voting for provincially, could you please rank your top two current local preferences? (Committed voters only - First Preference)

The numbers in parentheses denote the change from September 1st, 2011 (n=917).
*Undecided represents respondents who are not committed voters.

Ontario (n=415 committed voters)

Liberal 38.1% (+6.2)
Progressive Conservative 34.7% (-0.7)
NDP 24.3% (+1.5)
Green 2.7% (-1.4)
*Undecided 18.0% (+9.2)

Leadership Questions: As you may know, [Rotate] Dalton McGuinty is the leader of the Liberal Party, Tim Hudak is the leader of the Progressive Conservative Party, Andrea Horwath is the leader of the NDP, and Mike Schreiner is the leader of the Green Party. Which of the provincial leaders would you best describe as: the most trustworthy, and the leader with the best vision for Ontario? (n=507)

The numbers in parentheses denote the change from August 13th, 2011 (n=1,000).

The Most Trustworthy Leader (n=507)
Dalton McGuinty 22.6% (-5.5)
Tim Hudak 19.3% (-3.5)
Andrea Horwath 11.1% (-2.5)
Mike Schreiner 3.2% (+0.5)
Unsure 24.1% (+10.0)
None of them 19.7% (+1.0)


The Leader with the Best Vision for Ontario's Future (n=507)
Dalton McGuinty 25.5% (-3.3)
Tim Hudak 19.5% (-6.3)
Andrea Horwath 12.6% (-0.3)
Mike Schreiner 2.9% (+0.2)
Unsure 26.8% (+10)
None of them 12.6% (-0.4) ....

Quote
Methodology:  Between September 10th and 11th, 2011, Nanos Research conducted a random telephone survey of 507 Ontarians 18 years and older. A random telephone survey of 507 Ontarians is accurate plus or minus 4.4 percentage points, 19 times out of 20.  For 415 committed voters, the margin of error is accurate plus or minus 4.9 percentage points, 19 times out of 20.
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Offline Thucydides

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Re: Ontario Election
« Reply #9 on: September 14, 2011, 23:41:22 »
Odd little aside:

A friend of mine is running for the Freedom Party as a protest against the PC Party, which seems incapable of presenting a bold platform or making any sort of principled arguments about anything. (She used to be quite active in the PC Riding association, and has been quite annoyed at how the party has been running things as far back as when John Tory became the leader). Apparently many PC supporters have similar feelings (although have not jumped the fence) and this lack of support will probably only translate to a PC minority government.

Aside 2: The Freedom Party is actually running enough candidates that they could form a majority government if everyone was elected. Not bad for a party which traditionally could only field a handfull of candidates. While I hardly expect this to happen, it is indicative of the growing power of new ideas and parites in the provincial political spectrum. Consider the Saskatchewan Party, or the growth of the Wild Rose Alliance Party in Alberta.
Dagny, this is not a battle over material goods. It's a moral crisis, the greatest the world has ever faced and the last. Our age is the climax of centuries of evil. We must put an end to it, once and for all, or perish - we, the men of the mind. It was our own guilt. We produced the wealth of the world - but we let our enemies write its moral code.

Offline X Royal

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Re: Ontario Election
« Reply #10 on: September 15, 2011, 09:52:30 »
I'll be amazed if it's not a minority government with the NDP being the Party that will hold the deciding vote (or influence on the presented policy) by deciding if they side with the Liberals or the PC's on an issue by issue basis.

Offline E.R. Campbell

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Re: Ontario Election
« Reply #11 on: September 15, 2011, 09:57:06 »
As of today I'm guessing - and it's a WAG (Wild Assed Guess), not even a SWAG (Scientific Wild Assed Guess) - it will be a Liberal minority propped up for four years of big spending on special interests by the NDP.

It is ill that men should kill one another in seditions, tumults and wars; but it is worse to bring nations to such misery, weakness and baseness as to have neither strength nor courage to contend for anything; to have nothing left worth defending and to give the name of peace to desolation.
Algernon Sidney in Discourses Concernign Government, (1698)
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Offline milnews.ca

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Re: Ontario Election
« Reply #12 on: September 15, 2011, 10:10:05 »
As of today I'm guessing - and it's a WAG (Wild Assed Guess), not even a SWAG (Scientific Wild Assed Guess) - it will be a Liberal minority propped up for four years of big spending on special interests by the NDP.
Agree with this, at this point (at the WAG level of certainty as well), because voters writ large may be thinking:
1)  (rightly or wrongly) "Hmmmm, isn't this a Mike Harris kinda guy?  I remember hospitals closing.", and
2)  "Better the devil I know."
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Re: Ontario Election
« Reply #13 on: September 15, 2011, 12:26:53 »
McGuinty has caught on to the Quebec ponzi (well maybe not ponzi) scheme: spend, spend, and more spending as the greedy, I'm alright Jack electorate soak it up. Bingo a have not province gets in deeper, and the ROC (read AB and SK) pay the bills.
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Offline Thucydides

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Re: Ontario Election
« Reply #14 on: September 17, 2011, 01:47:17 »
Using tax dollars for political advertizing should be made a criminal offence:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/65183002/Taxpayer-Dollars-Funding-Dalton-McGuinty-s-Advertising-Campaign

Quote
Taxpayers’ Dollars Funding Dalton McGuinty’s Advertising Campaign

“We will ban self - promotional government advertising”
(Dalton McGuinty, 2003 Ontario Liberal Party Platform, Page 15)

While Ontario families are struggling to make ends meet because of Dalton McGuinty’s tax grabs and skyrocketing hydro bills, today Ontario families learned they are also footing the bill for Dalton McGuinty to funnel millions to an organization–the Ontario Sustainable Energy Association–that is running ads in support of the Liberal’s re-election campaign.

The Ontario Sustainable Energy Association has received the following in taxpayers’ funds:

$3 million for the “Community Power Fund” from then Energy Minister and Windsor -Tecumseh Liberal MPP Dwight Duncan.
(Community Power Fund Press Release, September 17, 2007)

$1.5 million from the Ontario Trillium Foundation.
(National Post, August 18, 2010)

$100,000 from the Ministry of the Environment
(National Post, August 18, 2010)

$45,000 from the Ministry of Agriculture, Food and Rural Affairs’ Rural Economic Development Program
(OSEA 2009 and 2010 Annual Reports)

$15,000 from the Ministry of Natural Resources
(OSEA 2009 Annual Report)

Undisclosed amounts from the Ontario Power Authority, Ministry of Energy, Ministry of Aboriginal Affairs,Hydro One and local distribution companies.
(National Post, August 18, 2010)

Now, the Ontario Sustainable Energy Association is spending $200,000 in television advertising to promote Dalton McGuinty’s core message.

(Link to Television Ads)
“On election day support those who support the green energy and economy act”
(Ontario Sustainable Energy Association television advertisement)
 
“The green energy and economy act and the feed-in-tariff are creating jobs.”
(Ontario Sustainable Energy Association television advertisement)

 Sound like anyone you know?

“At the heart of the Green Energy Act is North America’s most comprehensive feed-in tariff program (FIT),
which is sparking the development of renewable energy projects… In 2010, the Green Energy Act alone created 13,000 of those jobs.”
(Ontario Liberal Party Campaign Website, The Ontario Way)
 
Dalton McGuinty and Dwight Duncan need to explain why the organization they’ve given millions of taxpayer’s
money to is now funding television advertisements in support of their re-election campaign.
Contact:
Pema Lhalungpa | 647-925-2448 | pema.lhalungpa@timhudak.ca

Dagny, this is not a battle over material goods. It's a moral crisis, the greatest the world has ever faced and the last. Our age is the climax of centuries of evil. We must put an end to it, once and for all, or perish - we, the men of the mind. It was our own guilt. We produced the wealth of the world - but we let our enemies write its moral code.

Offline Haletown

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Re: Ontario Election
« Reply #15 on: September 17, 2011, 09:26:05 »
As of today I'm guessing - and it's a WAG (Wild Assed Guess), not even a SWAG (Scientific Wild Assed Guess) - it will be a Liberal minority propped up for four years of big spending on special interests by the NDP.

In that case, we should all start praying for Ontario because that is a recipe to get screwed.

Really, really screwed.

Offline E.R. Campbell

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Re: Ontario Election
« Reply #16 on: September 17, 2011, 09:54:03 »
In that case, we should all start praying for Ontario because that is a recipe to get screwed.

Really, really screwed.


Most assuredly; a PC majority is the best outcome; a PC minority, supported by the Liberals is next best; then a Liberal majority; and, finally, the worst possible outcomes are Liberal minority supported by the NDP followed by, the worst of all worlds, a NDP majority and similar variations.

But, today, my worst case guess still stands, because:



« Last Edit: September 17, 2011, 09:56:38 by E.R. Campbell »
It is ill that men should kill one another in seditions, tumults and wars; but it is worse to bring nations to such misery, weakness and baseness as to have neither strength nor courage to contend for anything; to have nothing left worth defending and to give the name of peace to desolation.
Algernon Sidney in Discourses Concernign Government, (1698)
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Offline Baden Guy

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Re: Ontario Election
« Reply #17 on: September 17, 2011, 10:20:02 »
Seeing as we are into personal opinions:

NDP Andrea Horwath - this would be a repeat of the last NDP government, not enough talent in the caucus to form a competent government.

Progressive (oxymoron) Conservative Party, Tim Hudak - If such a thing as a truly "progressive" conservative party came along it might attract a lot of Ontario voters. But the Hudak platform is unfortunately regressive.

Liberal McGuinty - Wins by default

My :2c:
« Last Edit: September 17, 2011, 10:56:39 by Baden Guy »
CBC   BBC  New York Times
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Offline E.R. Campbell

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Re: Ontario Election
« Reply #18 on: September 17, 2011, 10:39:57 »
I agree that Hudak is the a problem.

Ontarians might vote for a right of centre federal party but they crave a centrist provincial government.

I think we, Conservatives, might be doing a lot better right now if we had selected Christine Elliott as leader, but she was too moderate for the hard core, hard right Tory activist base and so we got Hudak. It is the same problem that infects US politics: how can an extreme, loyalist party base select a candidate who will appeal to the independents and even a few of the other party's voters?


It is ill that men should kill one another in seditions, tumults and wars; but it is worse to bring nations to such misery, weakness and baseness as to have neither strength nor courage to contend for anything; to have nothing left worth defending and to give the name of peace to desolation.
Algernon Sidney in Discourses Concernign Government, (1698)
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Offline Baden Guy

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Re: Ontario Election
« Reply #19 on: September 17, 2011, 10:42:35 »
Oct. 6 election is too close to call

The Ontario election is too close to call after Progressive Conservative Leader Tim Hudak’s rocky campaign start has enabled Liberal Leader Dalton McGuinty to close the gap, a new Toronto Star-Angus Reid poll suggests.

The Conservatives, who held a 20-point lead in an Angus Reid survey in May, now sits at 36 per cent with the Liberals at 32 per cent.

The New Democrats had 26 per cent and the Green Party trailed at 6 per cent.

“I wouldn’t say (the Tories) have plateaued, but they’ve stalled a little bit,” Jaideep Mukerji, managing director at Angus Reid, said Friday.

More at link:
http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/politics/provincialelection/article/1055420--oct-6-election-is-too-close-to-call?bn=1

CBC   BBC  New York Times
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Offline Retired AF Guy

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Re: Ontario Election
« Reply #20 on: September 17, 2011, 11:01:35 »
Oct. 6 election is too close to call

The Ontario election is too close to call after Progressive Conservative Leader Tim Hudak’s rocky campaign start has enabled Liberal Leader Dalton McGuinty to close the gap, a new Toronto Star-Angus Reid poll suggests.

The Conservatives, who held a 20-point lead in an Angus Reid survey in May, now sits at 36 per cent with the Liberals at 32 per cent.

The New Democrats had 26 per cent and the Green Party trailed at 6 per cent.

“I wouldn’t say (the Tories) have plateaued, but they’ve stalled a little bit,” Jaideep Mukerji, managing director at Angus Reid, said Friday.

More at link:
http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/politics/provincialelection/article/1055420--oct-6-election-is-too-close-to-call?bn=1

I think any polls about the Ontario election should be taken with a grain of salt. Here is an open letter from the head of Ipso Reid and his Managing Director saying that some of polls on the Ontario election cannot be trusted and that in fact, some media agencies are using bad polls because the results fits in with their editorial policy. Re-printed under S29 of the Copyright Act.

Quote
Evaluating the Polls: an Open Letter to Ontario’s Journalists

Wednesday, September 14, 2011

Toronto, ON – We’ve all seen over the last few days a confusing cacophony of polls on the Ontario election. Depending on what poll you read, McGuinty's Liberals are on a roll, Hudak and the Tories are comfortably ahead, or the Grits and Tories are neck and neck. How can this be? It is because all polls are NOT created equally. And, in spite of what you may assume, pollsters are never held to account for their indiscretions, incompetence and mistakes (there is no “polling police”). Some marginal pollsters count on your ignorance and hunger to make the news to peddle an inferior product. Others are using your coverage to "prove" that their untried methodology is the way forward for market research in Canada. Instead of being their own biggest sceptics (which is what our training tells us to be), they've become hucksters selling methodological snake oil. Remember, the term "pollster" is derived from the term "huckster".

Journalists are no mere dupes in this process. We've also seen a disturbing trend of late in which questionable polls find their way into an outlet’s coverage because they appear to match an editorial line, or present a counter-intuitive perspective. After all, if a poll is wrong it’s easy to throw the pollster under the bus and walk away with clean hands.

All of this MUST stop. We are distorting our democracy, confusing voters, and destroying what should be a source of truth in election campaigns - the unbiased, truly scientific public opinion poll.

To be clear, this is not about banning media polls during election campaigns. That would just take us back to the old days of backroom boys leaking false polling, and to the practices we see in less stable democracies around the world. What we need is better, more informed reporting of polls. Here are six easy rules to get us started.

1. IVR polls (robo-calling) are NOT telephone polls. They are tremendously biased in terms of sample coverage. In the last federal election IVR polls were MASSIVELY off on the final vote. Why? Because they systematically under-represented the Tory vote. But, these same pollsters have picked up again in this election without skipping a beat. Here's the question you should be asking them - show us your UNWEIGHTED results. That's prior to adjusting for both demographics and political support. You'll be surprised by what you see.

2. The same question should be asked of pollsters using on-line methodologies to predict vote. Ask to see their results prior to all weighting. You will find that some heavy thumbs are being applied to adjust for under-represented voting groups. While the weighting can produce very good results, it really amounts to no more than an educated guess. And, if that's the case, the results should be reported as such.

3. Disclosing margin of error and the questions asked doesn't represent meaningful disclosure: a rogue poll, a bad poll, and a good poll all look the same on these points. Be honest when something looks dodgy - either don't publish it, or publish it with an editorial disclaimer. Huge shifts in public opinion, even in an election, are the exception, not the rule and should be treated as dubious until confirmed by other polls.

4. A moratorium should be placed on all "new" polling techniques until the pollster has tested them in parallel with more traditional polling methods with a record of success. This should have absolutely been the case with IVR in the federal election. It's a pretty minimum standard to be right at least once with a new methodology before you get to lead a newscast or get the front page headline in a newspaper.

5. The conventional election scenario that's tested in a vote question is - if you had to vote tomorrow, how would you vote? If your pollster asked something different, even if the poll was properly done, it should NOT be reported as "current vote". It is misleading to do so.

6. Spend some time with pollsters. Not just the one you know or use, but with the ones you're hearing about. They are NOT all created equal. Find out about their business. Is this a one person show that subcontracts all of their data collection, and only shows up at election time? What research are they doing on research? What resources do they have available - is it one way for everything, or do they have the resources to adjust depending on what's needed? What are their motives? Are they just publicity hounds trying to promote their business, or are they serious researchers with both the desire and capabilities to perform at the highest level? Shouldn’t you do at least this minimal background check on whomever you are trusting with your lead story?

These six rules require journalists to do two things - kick the tires before publishing a poll, and make it harder for bad or misleading polls to get published. That's the way it's done in jurisdictions that take polling seriously. It's sad that this isn't the case in Ontario today.

Darrell Bricker and John Wright lead all of Ipsos Reid’s political polling for the media in Canada. They have done polls in every major election in Canada since 1988. Ipsos Reid is Canada’s largest market research firm, and is owned by Ipsos, the world’s third largest market research firm.
"People who don't think money can buy happiness, don't know where to shop."  Phillip Cross, former chief economic analyst for Statistics Canada.

Offline E.R. Campbell

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Re: Ontario Election
« Reply #21 on: September 26, 2011, 07:22:19 »
Here, reproduced under the Fair Dealing provisions of the Copyright Act from the Globe and Mail, is, in my opinion a pretty fair analysis of Ontario's situation - pre and post election:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/ontario-election/in-ontario-a-refusal-to-face-the-fiscal-facts/article2179766/
Quote
In Ontario, a refusal to face the fiscal facts

ADAM RADWANSKI
From Monday's Globe and Mail

Last updated Monday, Sep. 26, 2011

As Ontario’s election campaign enters its final 10 days, hurtling toward an unwieldy minority legislature, the elephant in the room is becoming impossible to ignore.

The next government faces dramatic restructuring of public services to cope with a stubborn deficit at a time of major economic turbulence. Dalton McGuinty’s Liberals and Tim Hudak’s Progressive Conservatives are running neck-and-neck while Andrea Horwath’s New Democrats are a competitive third, but none of the three seem able to budge their numbers. The final week-and-a-half, kicked into higher gear by Tuesday’s leaders debate, will be their last chance to determine which party – or combination of parties – is best suited to the task.

Through a sort of conspiracy of silence, all three leaders have thus far pretended that challenge doesn’t exist. “I would think I’ve fulfilled my quota of asking Ontarians to do difficult things,” Mr. McGuinty said in an interview Sunday, citing his imposition of a harmonized sales tax and pursuit of expensive energy policies. The other leaders heartily endorse that analysis, both promising a combination of pocketbook relief and improved services – which Ms. Horwath justified on Sunday, as she released the optimistic costing for her platform, on the basis that “everyday families are under more pressure in Ontario than ever before.”

Instead of levelling with voters about their own intentions, the parties have spent much of the campaign making up secret agendas on each other’s behalf – the Liberals accusing Mr. Hudak of planning cuts to core services, the Tories claiming Mr. McGuinty is champing at the bit to raise taxes.

In fact, this campaign is less about secret agendas than non-existent ones – all sides transparently believing that campaigning and governing are two separate things, and the latter can be figured out once the former is over with.

The Liberals and the Tories, possibly even the NDP, are secure in this belief largely because they’re banking on a public-services review headed by former bank economist Don Drummond to point them in the right direction. Mr. Drummond’s commission is expected to propose controversial reforms – including ones required to flatten growth in health spending. Even recommendations in less sensitive areas would probably require considerable upheaval of the public service.

Mr. Hudak expressed interest Sunday in what Mr. Drummond proposes, provided it’s not tax increases (which Mr. McGuinty also insists he has ruled out).

It will require a strong-stomached premier to implement such reforms – or conversely, to create new sources of revenue. And it would need an incredibly deft one (not to mention an unusually pragmatic and responsible Opposition leader) to get that done in the event of a minority government. If instead those decisions were punted down the road, it could potentially plunge the province into a full-fledged crisis.

Among the challenges for the leaders in the next 10 days will be to prove to voters – those who pay close attention, at least – that they have what it takes to get the job done.

In Mr. McGuinty’s case, that will involve positioning himself as the only adult in the conversation – a “steady hand on the tiller,” as he put it Sunday. It’s much the same case Stephen Harper made in last spring’s federal election, but with a stronger expressed faith in the power of government.

For Mr. Hudak, it will be about positioning himself as the only leader with a real respect for taxpayers’ dollars – potentially a winning argument as voters worry about how much value they’re getting for their money. And he will continue trying to present himself as young and hungry, relative to Mr. McGuinty’s allegedly out-of-gas Liberals.

Ms. Horwath, meanwhile, will try to present herself as a different sort of politician, more positive and in touch with the needs of everyday people – a pitch the NDP hopes will convert the goodwill toward the late Jack Layton into support for her. She’s pinning many of her hopes on her ability to strike a different tone from the other leaders in Tuesday’s debate, although her tentative performance alongside Mr. Hudak in a Northern-issues debate last Friday did not go unnoticed, even by some New Democrats.

“Our responsibility is to turn to Ontarians, consult them, listen to them,” Mr. McGuinty said in the interview. He was referring to tough decisions that will be made by the government down the road. But the next 10 days are voters’ chance to shape those decisions, even if the leaders would prefer to pretend otherwise.


Dalton McGuinty is, sadly, on the right track even as he is, philosophically wrong:" it is, indeed, politicians' "responsibility .. to consult" the people, but the consultation must be honest and responsible. All three 'leaders' (as they style themselves) offer bromides not consultations, they listen only to what they want to hear.

Ontario's (population 13+ million) GDP is about $575 Billion - it ranks somewhere between Switzerland (population 7.8 million, GDP $525+ Billion) and Indonesia (population 238 million, GDP $706 Billion); it is, in other words, a pretty important place, on a par, in both population and GDP, with Pennsylvania in the USA. If Pennsylvania was in a deep financial hole and digging itself in deeper there would be deep concern. In fact, Pennsylvania is about in the middle of the (weak) US pack. But Ontario is not in the middle of the Canadian pack: it is a "have not" province and it is sinking deeper and deeper in debt.

There are legitimate arguments for and against a range of socio-economic policies. I have a pretty firm opinion of my own which is, socially and economically, far from Tim Hudak - I'm well to the "left" of him socially and well "right" of him economically, much farther from McGuinty (in all areas) and nowhere near Andrea Horwath (in any area). But that doesn't mean I'm right, it just means that I pay attention when there is no election.

Like the party leaders, I have considerable faith in Don Drummond's ability to chart a correct course. But I have no faith in any so called 'leader' - not Hudak, not McGuinty and certainly not Horwath - to follow a sensible, economically sound plan. Why not? Because Horwath is, doctrinally, unable to do it and Hudak and McGuyinty - Tweedledumb and Tweedledumber - lack both the brains and guts to do it.

It is ill that men should kill one another in seditions, tumults and wars; but it is worse to bring nations to such misery, weakness and baseness as to have neither strength nor courage to contend for anything; to have nothing left worth defending and to give the name of peace to desolation.
Algernon Sidney in Discourses Concernign Government, (1698)
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Offline Thucydides

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Re: Ontario Election
« Reply #22 on: September 28, 2011, 22:44:14 »
Well, here is one reason to vote for the Freedom Party (heh)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Omhp05UolIw&feature=player_embedded
Dagny, this is not a battle over material goods. It's a moral crisis, the greatest the world has ever faced and the last. Our age is the climax of centuries of evil. We must put an end to it, once and for all, or perish - we, the men of the mind. It was our own guilt. We produced the wealth of the world - but we let our enemies write its moral code.

Offline Thucydides

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Re: Ontario Election
« Reply #23 on: October 01, 2011, 12:04:15 »
More on McGuinty's record. It is astounding that he isn't being crushed in the polls:

http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2011/10/01/david-frum-who’s-won-and-who’s-lost-in-dalton-mcguinty’s-ontario/

Quote
David Frum: Who’s won and who’s lost in Dalton McGuinty’s Ontario

J.P. Moczulski/Reuters
Watch you don't get run over by McGuinty's bus.
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David Frum  Oct 1, 2011 – 9:00 AM ET | Last Updated: Sep 30, 2011 5:15 PM ET

Politics is about who gets what, when, and how.

Let’s apply that famous definition to Dalton McGuinty’s Ontario: Who has been getting what?

Thanks to the Ottawa Citizen, we know that Liberal-held provincial ridings have been getting almost 80% of provincial job-creation funds. “The Eastern Ontario Development Fund — a program designed to attract new business investment — has granted Liberal ridings on average $4 million since it was created in 2008, more than twice the $1.7 million averaged by Conservative-held ridings,” the Citizen reports. “In total, the fund has dispensed $40.5 million, according to figures released by the province. Nearly four-fifths of that money, or 78.4 per cent, has gone to Liberal ridings. The two highest-granted ridings belong to Liberal cabinet ministers. Consumer Services Minister John Gerretsen’s riding of Kingston and the Islands received the most, $7.7 million in provincial handouts, or 19.1 per cent of the total. The next highest-funded riding was Prince Edward-Hastings, which belongs to Education Minister Leona Dombrowsky. Her riding received $6 million, or 14.8 per cent of the program funding.”

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That’s quite a payola system the Libs are operating in eastern Ontario! They are now planning a similar scheme for southwestern Ontario. And no wonder: The scheme works for them, if for nobody else.

Yet in fairness, you don’t have to be a Liberal candidate minister to collect money from Dalton McGuinty. There’s money galore for producers of boutique electricity, who are paid up to 10 times – 1000% ! – the market price for electricity.

The Ontario Energy Board permits a price to consumers of 6.8 cents per kilowatt-hour for the first 600 kilowatt hours and 7.9 cents thereafter. However, (some) owners of roof-mounted solar panel can get contracts to sell power at 80 cents a kilowatt hour. Quite a windfall.

This selective overpayment is touted as a way to reduce greenhouse emissions and create new jobs. Yet there are much cheaper ways to reduce emissions. Taxing greenhouse gases encourages people to reduce emissions in the cheapest way: through conservation. The feed-in tariff encourages people to reduce emissions in the most expensive way: by substituting ruinously costly solar production for cheap coal production.

Of course if you truly want to know “who got what” you have to focus on Ontario’s most powerful “who”: the public service unions and their amazing pay deals with the McGuinty government.

The most notorious deal benefited 33,700 Ontario Public Service Employees Union workers. Back in 2008, these OPSEU members gained a publicly acknowledged 2% pay increase over four years, accompanied by a secret side letter promising an additional 1% after the 2012 election.

From the Canada Press: “Government lawyers tried to keep the accord under wraps, but were compelled to disclose documents at [a labor relations board] hearing …”

Altogether, government workers have gained pay increases estimated at almost $127-million over the past two years, despite Ontario’s ominous budget deficits, and despite the McGuinty government’s promises of public wage freezes.

So that’s who got. Now the other side of the hill: Who in Ontario didn’t get?

Ontario’s unemployment rate has exceeded the Canadian average for 56 months. Those unemployed didn’t get.

The McGuinty Liberal government has offered a $10,000 tax credit to firms that employ recently arrived immigrants. Under that plan, the native-born unemployed won’t get.

The Canadian Taxpayer Federation projects an average tax increase of 4.3% for Ontarians in 2011 over 2010, the highest in Canada. Taxpayers don’t get.

A study by the Toronto Board of Trade ranked the GTA’s traffic gridlock the worst of 19 major metropolises in North America, including Los Angeles and New York City. Yet even as Ontario overspends on solar power, road improvements are being frozen and cancelled. Commuters don’t get.

Dalton McGuinty has twice broken promises not to raise taxes. In his most recent term in office, McGuinty has imposed a range of new taxes including taxes on electronics, tires, and tourist destinations. In May, the Ontario Liberal caucus voted down a Conservative motion to preclude further new taxes in future. Dalton McGuinty and his Liberals are visibly preparing to raise taxes again to close the budget deficit they won’t close on the spending side. So maybe the ultimate conclusion of this political science class is very personal: It’s Dalton McGuinty who doesn’t get it.
Dagny, this is not a battle over material goods. It's a moral crisis, the greatest the world has ever faced and the last. Our age is the climax of centuries of evil. We must put an end to it, once and for all, or perish - we, the men of the mind. It was our own guilt. We produced the wealth of the world - but we let our enemies write its moral code.

Offline E.R. Campbell

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Re: Ontario Election
« Reply #24 on: October 01, 2011, 16:36:21 »
More on McGuinty's record. It is astounding that he isn't being crushed in the polls:

http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2011/10/01/david-frum-who’s-won-and-who’s-lost-in-dalton-mcguinty’s-ontario/


He's not being "crushed in the polls" because we, Conservatives, shot ourselves in the foot a couple of years ago when we selected Hudak, who I suspect cannot win a majority, over the moderate Elliott who, almost certainly, in my opinion, could.
It is ill that men should kill one another in seditions, tumults and wars; but it is worse to bring nations to such misery, weakness and baseness as to have neither strength nor courage to contend for anything; to have nothing left worth defending and to give the name of peace to desolation.
Algernon Sidney in Discourses Concernign Government, (1698)
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