Topic: NDP MP introduces bill to create "Defence of Canada Medal (1946-1989)"

[milnews.ca]

This (via Hansard), from Carol Hughes (Algoma—Manitoulin—Kapuskasing, NDP), as she introduced Private Member's Bill C-354, An Act respecting the establishment and award of a Defence of Canada Medal (1946-1989) (summary of bill and where it's at in the process):

Mr. Speaker, I am proud to be able to reintroduce this bill for the establishment and award of a defence of Canada medal for the men and women who served in the defence of Canada during the cold war. This act represents the hard work and vision of one of my constituents, retired Captain Ulrich Krings of Elliot Lake, who presented me with this proposal shortly after I was elected in 2008. Its purpose is to formally honour the people who defended Canada from within Canada for the period from 1946 to 1989. As such, it is intended to be awarded to individuals who served in the regular and reserve forces, police forces, emergency measures organizations, as well as civil organizations, such as St. John Ambulance, all of whom were concerned with the protection of Canada from the threat posed by the countries behind the Iron Curtain. This medal will recognize the support of the men and woman who gave countless hours to Canadians as they trained and prepared in case of an attack on Canadian soil, which fortunately never took place. Their service to our country came at a time when we became aware of how fragile peace can be and how vulnerable we may become to advances in weapons of warfare. This medal would give something back to all those who worked in those years to keep us safe and prepared. I thank my colleague from Thunder Bay—Rainy River (John Rafferty) for his continued support on this bill and for seconding this item for a second time.

Caveat:  most Private Member's Bills don't end up making it all the way through the legislative sausage machine to become law unless there's significant government support for the idea.

[Jim Seggie]

This (via Hansard), from Carol Hughes (Algoma—Manitoulin—Kapuskasing, NDP), as she introduced Private Member's Bill C-354, An Act respecting the establishment and award of a Defence of Canada Medal (1946-1989) (summary of bill and where it's at in the process):Caveat:  most Private Member's Bills don't end up making it all the way through the legislative sausage machine to become law unless there's significant government support for the idea.

Like we need another gong for sitting on our rucksacks.

[Tank Troll]

A guy that I know would probably like to get that one also, it would look good with his 125, QSJM, CD with clasp. We were at a mess dinner and he told his wife that yes we looked nice with all our shiny tin hanging off use but that everyone of those represented 6 months away from home. He  that felt he was gone enough with regular exercises, deploying would be just to much time away! He also thought that we should get a medal for every domestic OP we did, then he would have a rack like everyone else.

[medicineman]

A guy that I know would probably like to get that one also, it would look good with his 125, QSJM, CD with clasp. We were at a mess dinner and he told his wife that yes we looked nice with all our shiny tin hanging off use but that everyone of those represented 6 months away from home. He  that felt he was gone enough with regular exercises, deploying would be just to much time away! He also thought that we should get a medal for every domestic OP we did, then he would have a rack like everyone else.

I hope someone punched him in the throat...gott love folks that can equate a freak summer snowstorm in Wainwright with perpetual gunfights or rocket attacks or tip toeing through minefields.  Dude's either really good at rationalizing things or is totally delusional.

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Unreal.

Please take the colossal waste of money this would cost and use it to fix up war memorials across the country..........

[Tank Troll]

I hope someone punched him in the throat...gott love folks that can equate a freak summer snowstorm in Wainwright with perpetual gunfights or rocket attacks or tip toeing through minefields.  Dude's either really good at rationalizing things or is totally delusional.

We pretty much just ignored him and bladed him to the RSM everytime a crap job came up. But it was frustrating watching him go on career course while the rest of use were doing deployment training or coming back and finding that he had gone on a career course because every one else was deployed.

[dapaterson]

For those wondering "Do I qualify?":

4. (1) The Medal may be awarded by the Governor in Council to any Canadian citizen or permanent resident with a minimum cumulative period of three years of service in one or more of the following organizations during the period commencing on June 1, 1946 and ending on November 30, 1989:

  (a) the Canadian Forces and Regular Force, as well as their predecessors: the Royal Canadian Navy (RCN), the Canadian Army (Regular) and the Royal Canadian Air Force (RCAF);

  (b) the Canadian Forces and Reserve Force, as well as their predecessors: the Royal Canadian Naval Reserve (RCNR), the Canadian Army (Militia), the RCAF Auxiliary and the Canadian Rangers;

  (c) police services that were trained and engaged in national survival and counter-espionage;

  (d) provincial and municipal organizations whose role it was to protect the civilian population or render social and medical aid during a nuclear attack;

  (e) recognized civilian organizations that undertook National Survival Training and stood ready to apply it in case of a national emergency; and

  (f) the Canadian Coast Guard.

Source:  http://www.parl.gc.ca/HousePublications/Publication.aspx?Docid=4134825&file=4

[MCG]

Does anyone have the parody list of "new medals" that started floating around at least a decade ago?  Wasn't the first one on the list a never left Canada medal?
It looks lie someone wants the joke to be real.

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Agreed.

I don't understand why " I served, I loved it, I hated it, I got laid, I got paid, I got out" isn't enough?  I'm quite happy with it....................

[milnews.ca]

For those wondering "Do I qualify?":

4. (1) The Medal may be awarded by the Governor in Council to any Canadian citizen or permanent resident with a minimum cumulative period of three years of service in one or more of the following organizations during the period commencing on June 1, 1946 and ending on November 30, 1989:

  (a) the Canadian Forces and Regular Force, as well as their predecessors: the Royal Canadian Navy (RCN), the Canadian Army (Regular) and the Royal Canadian Air Force (RCAF);

  (b) the Canadian Forces and Reserve Force, as well as their predecessors: the Royal Canadian Naval Reserve (RCNR), the Canadian Army (Militia), the RCAF Auxiliary and the Canadian Rangers;

  (c) police services that were trained and engaged in national survival and counter-espionage;

  (d) provincial and municipal organizations whose role it was to protect the civilian population or render social and medical aid during a nuclear attack;

  (e) recognized civilian organizations that undertook National Survival Training and stood ready to apply it in case of a national emergency; and

  (f) the Canadian Coast Guard.

Source:  http://www.parl.gc.ca/HousePublications/Publication.aspx?Docid=4134825&file=4

Wow, that's pretty..... inclusive.

[dapaterson]

Source:  http://www.parl.gc.ca/HousePublications/Publication.aspx?Docid=4134825&file=4

Wow, that's pretty..... inclusive.

I was in the Boy Scouts in the early 80s - does that count?

[PMedMoe]

Meh, I probably won't get it until after I retire.

[milnews.ca]

I was in the Boy Scouts in the early 80s - does that count?

Did your troop do this? 

  (e) recognized civilian organizations that undertook National Survival Training and stood ready to apply it in case of a national emergency; and

[medicineman]

Meh, I probably won't get it until after I retire.

Hey, I joined the Reserves in 1986...woohoo, get to pay more money to extend my rack that only comes out on Remembrance Day now  .

My Dad still hasn't applied for his SSM from when he was in Germany in the mid 60's...now he can have a 2 fer...

MM

[Journeyman]

We'll show those Frontiersmen   

[medicineman]

We'll show those Frontiersmen   

[XMP]

Does anyone have the parody list of "new medals" that started floating around at least a decade ago?  Wasn't the first one on the list a never left Canada medal?
It looks lie someone wants the joke to be real.

Ask and ye shall recieve:

[PMedMoe]

Ask and ye shall recieve:

Love it.  According to that, I get four more.   

[Danjanou]

We'll show those Frontiersmen   

No we won't because according to the criteria they'll get it too. Knowing them they'll also create their own version as well.

Somehow I just know that this will actually pass and so will that other bit of bling the Governor Generals Volunteer Service Medal, although they wont' come out at the same time.  The reason I know is I just paid to get my medals remounted for Nov 11th and now will have to waste valuable beer money to do it again. 

[ArmyVern]

I want a "Issue me a damn chest to pin all this bling on" medal.

They'll buy a chest for boys, but none for me and that really sucks. 

[Canadian.Trucker]

What a waste of an idea.  There's always some sort of threat against Canada, so if this went through you would have people whining that there should be a medal for the period of 2001-present about the extra threat of terrorists since 9/11.  Oh, but then you need to look at 1990-2000 where there was a threat of countries destabilizing due to the Soviet Union collapsing... it goes on and on and on.

[ballz]

Ask and ye shall recieve:

The funny thing about that chart and it's "Never Left Canada" medal that was clearly meant to be a joke is that it requires 20 years of service where as the MP's suggestion only requires 3 years.

The author of that piece must be banging his head off the wall.

EDIT: to remove the huge image

[E.R. Campbell]

There's something in the water, right? A medal for showing up? I thought that's why we had the CD. Now I read that some Afghan vets want a big parade of their own.

I have a plan for the medal - in the unlikely event that an opposition private member's bill even wins the lottery* and gets debated and in the even more unlikely event that it passes I will ignore it for the reason Danjanou gave: all this new bling is a plot by the medal mounting business.

I also have a plan for the Afghan victory parade: a battery of horse drawn brass cannon (we've got two years to find the guns, train the horses and riders, etc), a guard of scarlet coated engineers (two years to raise the money for the jackets and busbys), three or four armoured and ten or twelve infantry guards, each with regimental guidons/colours and guards from all the other assorted ash and trash (two years to teach the RCAF how to do drill, too) - all standing and stamping about on Parliament Hill on a hot August day while assorted politicos bask in the reflected glory. I'll get my letter off to the MND tomorrow, he'll love it - he's the biggest publicity hound in Ottawa; he would attend the opening of an envelope if the media was coming.







... etc, etc, etc

__________
* That's how they decide which private members' bills get to first reading: they draw lots.


Edit: typo

[Danjanou]

What a waste of an idea.  There's always some sort of threat against Canada, so if this went through you would have people whining that there should be a medal for the period of 2001-present about the extra threat of terrorists since 9/11.  Oh, but then you need to look at 1990-2000 where there was a threat of countries destabilizing due to the Soviet Union collapsing... it goes on and on and on.

That's at least two more medals there plus maybe a couple of bars. My retired medal mounting guy in Scarberia is going to be shopping for a Lexus.

[ArmyVern]

LMAO Edward. Beer's on me next time. 

[E.R. Campbell]

LMAO Edward. Beer's on me next time. 

I have printed this out Vern ... I will not forget.

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Ah Vern?  "On me" probably means something different to Edward.

[recceguy]

Did your troop do this? 

No, but every school and student did

I'm sure hiding under my wooden desk as it caught fire was the best thought out solution they could come up with at the time


spelling

[Bruce Monkhouse]

wooded

Hot teacher??
[sorry giving this thread the effort it deserves]

[MarkOttawa]

  (c) police services that were trained and engaged in national survival and counter-espionage [RCMP Security Service and predecessors--but what about non-police CSIS after 1984?];

  (d) provincial and municipal organizations whose role it was to protect the civilian population or render social and medical aid during a nuclear attack [lord knows how many people];

  (e) recognized civilian organizations that undertook National Survival Training and stood ready to apply it in case of a national emergency [ditto]; and

  (f) the Canadian Coast Guard [not created until 1965, had no Cold War role as such since a civilian service].

Mark
Ottawa

[CountDC]

(two years to teach the RCAF how to do drill, too)

Sounded good until I reached this part.  No use trying for the impossible, stick to the fly passes.

Personally I take this bill as an insult.  I have my nice CD1 for my years of service and well on my way to changing it to a 2 - I do not need another thank you for coming out medal.  In fact if they want to add a medal how about the "I survived the Decade of Darkness" medal.  Any pay clerks from the period get a special bar with the word CLERK on it for surviving as everyone seemed to blame us for not getting an increase.  Note that it is for survivors only - if you released prior to the end then you do not qualify (can't have all those FRP's looking for another hand out.)   

[dapaterson]

Note that it is for survivors only - if you released prior to the end then you do not qualify (can't have all those FRP's looking for another hand out.)   

It would be interesting to see how many people took an FRP buy-out, and then took a recruiting incentive to get back in...

[Haggis]

It would be interesting to see how many people took an FRP buy-out, and then took a recruiting incentive to get back in...

Sounds like a fine topic for an ATI request. 

[medicineman]

Wow - looks like I'd get 3 more, some with a couple of extra clasps...

MM

[dapaterson]

Sounds like a fine topic for an ATI request. 

To ATI document the document or information must exist.  The CF is, at times, singularly uncurious about its own behaviour, and ignores oportunities to learn from its actions.

[mariomike]

"(d) provincial and municipal organizations whose role it was to protect the civilian population or render social and medical aid during a nuclear attack;"

Sounds like duplication/triplication. The Exemplary Service Medal ESM already "recognize(s) the men and women dedicated to preserving Canada’s public safety through long and outstanding service."
So do the provincial and departmental long-service medals in emergency services.

[Danjanou]

So I'm presuming based on the dates that this is the long overdue Cold War Medal and not the GGVSM



If that's the case which spiffy version should we go for?

The National Guard sometimes legal version?

 
Or the Eurotrash bling?


I think we should declare victory and go with the flashy version.,

 Any luck we could have it issued in time for the gay pride parade.  Those in the LOF would of course be entitled to all three.
Besides we could design and issue dour own Jagermeister bar for those of us who really were former Fulda Gap speed bumps.

[CDN Aviator]

(two years to teach the RCAF how to do drill, too)

I knew there was a reason why i was not on parade today 

That's ok, i got all the recognition i needed. Not only did my $266 in risk allowance make it on my end-month pay, my federal income tax was also adjusted as a result of OP MOBILE.

[TB]

That's ok, i got all the recognition i needed. Not only did my $266 in risk allowance make it on my end-month pay, my federal income tax was also adjusted as a result of OP MOBILE.

Yes having that extra $1200 on top of our pay before Christmas is indeed a good recognition.   

[PJGary]

Australia actually has their version of this medal, except it's for current service as well.
 http://www.defence.gov.au/medals/Content/+047%20ADM%20+%20ANSM/+070%20ADM/

Since I wouldn't qualify for this medal due to the slight problem of not being alive in the 60's and 70's, I'll just petition to get "Saville Farm" and "Vertical Village" added to my unit's battle honors.

[ArmyVern]

Australia actually has their version of this medal, except it's for current service as well.
 http://www.defence.gov.au/medals/Content/+047%20ADM%20+%20ANSM/+070%20ADM/

Since I wouldn't qualify for this medal due to the slight problem of not being alive in the 60's and 70's, I'll just petition to get "Saville Farm" and "Vertical Village" added to my unit's battle honors.

Arghhhhhhhhhhhh ... we have a thread on the proposed Volunteer Service Medal that turned into a "But Australia does, so we Canadians should have one too thread ..." I think it was 2 or 3 years ago now --- It was locked up right quick.

Thank goodness.

[Journeyman]

Actually, it turned into a "military bars I've known and loved" thread. 

I can't believe "The Village of Wainwright" was posted, but not The Park.



...and I want a clasp for the Roz   



Perhaps you didn't catch the subtle change because you're such a shy wallflower   

[Journeyman]

[In a vague attempt to get this remotely back....in the general grid square of.... the topic....]

Gee, I hope I get a medal out of this...   

[mad dog 2020]

This is one dumb idea, like already mentioned WE have the CD and I know that in Ontario there is a 20 yr exemplary service medal. 
I know the police have a medal.  However the range of entitlement for this medal will dilute the whole concept.
Please, I hope this one does not pass.   
Leave it to the NDP. 
I for one would not wear it. 
IMHO

[mariomike]

This is one dumb idea, like already mentioned WE have the CD and I know that in Ontario there is a 20 yr exemplary service medal. I know the police have a medal.

The ESMs are federal, and represent various professions:
http://archive.gg.ca/honours/medals/hon04-esm_e.asp

[Pusser]

A medal like this would be awarded to just about everybody.  In fact, it might be easier to compile a list of those who don't qualify - it could be shorter.

Medals are for doing something outside the norm.  If everyone is doing what it takes to get a medal and, therefore, gets it, then that activity is normal.  Those who wear the uniform are assumed to fulfill the normal duties of service.  No further recognition is required.

[ObedientiaZelum]

 

[Journeyman]

A medal like this would be awarded to just about everybody.  In fact, it might be easier to compile a list of those who don't qualify - it could be shorter.

Medals are for doing something outside the norm.  If everyone is doing what it takes to get a medal and, therefore, gets it, then that activity is normal.  Those who wear the uniform are assumed to fulfill the normal duties of service.  No further recognition is required.

Oh, you mean like the CD. 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

This is one dumb idea, like already mentioned WE have the CD and I know that in Ontario there is a 20 yr exemplary service medal. 

Aha,...didn't know this was you.
Actually the "exemplary medal" is a federal award and any time from the military that DIDN'T go towards your CD can go towards this one.
In my case I'm pushing 33 years for my 20 year medal,....I keep forgetting to bring in my retirement scroll and for a long time the Ontario Corrections folks didn't do their paperwork.

[Pusser]

Oh, you mean like the CD. 

Not everyone earns a CD.  I had a very senior sergeant once...

[mariomike]

Actually the "exemplary medal" is a federal award and any time from the military that DIDN'T go towards your CD can go towards this one.

Are you sure of that?
For example, Police Exemplary Service Medal ( from link above ):
"However, full-time exemplary service of former members of the RCMP and Military Police of the Canadian Forces may qualify where that service has not been recognized by award of the RCMP Long Service and Good Conduct Medal or the Canadian Forces Decoration, respectively."

This would seem to exclude time from the military not spent as a full-time member of the Military Police.

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Yup,...Corrections is different.

[mariomike]

Yup,...Corrections is different.

I guess it is.

From what we were told, CF time does not apply towards the EMS-ESM:
"Those with at least 10 years of service with emergency medical services may include, in the 20 years of service, service completed in another profession, provided this service has not been recognized by another long service, good conduct or efficiency decoration or medal awarded by the Crown."
We asked Ottawa what they meant by "another profession". They said it had to be one of the professions in the Exemplary Service Medal "family" ( as they called it ).

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Here's the links for all.
http://archive.gg.ca/honours/medals/hon04-esm_e.asp

[Pusser]

I guess it is.

From what we were told, CF time does not apply towards the EMS-ESM:
"Those with at least 10 years of service with emergency medical services may include, in the 20 years of service, service completed in another profession, provided this service has not been recognized by another long service, good conduct or efficiency decoration or medal awarded by the Crown."
We asked Ottawa what they meant by "another profession". They said it had to be one of the professions in the Exemplary Service Medal "family" ( as they called it ).

Yes, but not any other profession.  In the case of former CF members, their CF occupation has to fit within the profession recognized by a particular ESM.  For example, a former CF firefighter can use his/her CF service (as a firefighter) toward the Fire Services ESM, provided his CF service has not been recognized with a CD.  However, a former CF infantryman who becomes a civilian firefighter later cannot use any of his/her CF service toward the Fire Services ESM. 

[Good2Golf]

I like to think of this proposed medal as the NDP finally coming to its senses and wanting to formally recognize the good job that huge stockpiles of nuclear weapons did to maintain peace throughout the world. 

Regards
G2G

[medicineman]

I like to think of this proposed medal as the NDP finally coming to its senses and wanting to formally recognize the good job that huge stockpiles of nuclear weapons did to maintain peace throughout the world. 

Regards
G2G

So all the retired weapons and currently serving ones that were around then are to get the gongs...are there any Honest Johns, Bomarcs, Genies or Falcons around any more?   

MM

[SeaKingTacco]

I know where to find a Genie...

[CDN Aviator]

I know where to find a Genie...

A working one ?

[GnyHwy]

Unreal.

Please take the colossal waste of money this would cost and use it to fix up war memorials across the country..........

I can't even imagine the costs associated with this.  (# of medals) x (cost) + (# of parades) x (cost) + (# of dignitaries to issue) x (salary) + (sticky buns) x (a lot). 

I seriously doubt any realistic cost analysis has been done.  The word colossal is probably pretty accurate though.  I can't even begin to count the number of people that would qualify for this.  -1 for me though, I missed it by a couple years.

With the amount of money coupled with the amount of time to hand these suckers out, perhaps we could spread it out over the next 50 yrs.  We will have to get them to the old fellas first though, as they will not be around to see the last one issued.

[Old Sweat]

With the amount of money coupled with the amount of time to hand these suckers out, perhaps we could spread it out over the next 50 yrs.  We will have to get them to the old fellas first though, as they will not be around to see the last one issued.

Gee, thanks. I needed that.   

[GnyHwy]

LOL. Sorry, it has been awhile since I've attended a sensitivty seminar.

[Lex Parsimoniae]

This (via Hansard), from Carol Hughes (Algoma—Manitoulin—Kapuskasing, NDP), as she introduced Private Member's Bill C-354, An Act respecting the establishment and award of a Defence of Canada Medal (1946-1989) (summary of bill and where it's at in the process):Caveat:  most Private Member's Bills don't end up making it all the way through the legislative sausage machine to become law unless there's significant government support for the idea.

On a "glass 1/2 full" note - it is an NDP Bill "in support" of the CF.

[Rifleman62]

Even if successful, the huge majority of the RCL will still not have any CF service ribbons.

[recceguy]

I can't even imagine the costs associated with this.  (# of medals) x (cost) + (# of parades) x (cost) + (# of dignitaries to issue) x (salary) + (sticky buns) x (a lot). 

I seriously doubt any realistic cost analysis has been done.  The word colossal is probably pretty accurate though.  I can't even begin to count the number of people that would qualify for this.  -1 for me though, I missed it by a couple years.

With the amount of money coupled with the amount of time to hand these suckers out, perhaps we could spread it out over the next 50 yrs.  We will have to get them to the old fellas first though, as they will not be around to see the last one issued.

My CD and SSM (NATO) showed up in my mailbox, from Ottawa. The cost was postage

[mariomike]

I can't even begin to count the number of people that would qualify for this.

Neither can I. To get an idea, I looked up "Categories qualifying for the Defence Medal 1939 - 1945":
http://www.arrse.co.uk/military-history-militaria/132336-ww2-medals-civilians.html#post3165148

[RangerRay]

I wonder when I get one for being in the Militia during the "Decade of Darkness", defending the JR's with militia rounds (BANG!  BANG!)...

[SeaKingTacco]

A working one ?

There is no sign saying that it doesn't work.  I suppose that there is really only one way to find out...

[medicineman]

There is no sign saying that it doesn't work.  I suppose that there is really only one way to find out...

...and I'm pretty sure nobody will notice a small nuclear detonation in the middle of Saskatchewan

[Danjanou]

...and I'm pretty sure nobody will notice a small nuclear detonation in the middle of Saskatchewan

Might even make Debert liveable. 

[medicineman]

Pssst - think you meant Dumbdune Dundurn...Debert is in Nova Scotia  .  Mind you if the explosion were big enough...

MM

[Danjanou]

oops   Hey basically they're the same places you don't want to be sent to.

[Canadian.Trucker]

...and I'm pretty sure nobody will notice a small nuclear detonation in the middle of Saskatchewan

*pulls out lawn chair and opens a beer* And I thought Monday's were boring....

[Tank Troll]

oops   Hey basically they're the same places you don't want to be sent to.

Debert has a Tim hortons. Last time Iwas in Dundurn the didn't. I'll take coastal hills with a Tims over flat lands with out any day