Author Topic: Official Policy Change RE: Electronics during BMQ/BMOQ  (Read 37182 times)

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Online Jim Seggie

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Re: Official Policy Change RE: Electronics during BMQ/BMOQ
« Reply #325 on: January 12, 2012, 12:23:35 »
True enough, but we both know that the other side of that coin is "obligations" -- people are too willing to emphasize what's owed them, and not what they are duty-bound to produce.


I've said for years we, as a society, have not done enough to teach people about their responsibilties to their families, neighbours, and nation.
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Offline -Jules-

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Re: Official Policy Change RE: Electronics during BMQ/BMOQ
« Reply #326 on: January 12, 2012, 12:59:38 »
Jules,

I have found over the years that when a new members tries to "deal with something on their own time", they are usualy in over their heads already and it delays them telling me there is a problem. Things then land on my desk and are 99% of time, completely out of control. At that point, it is a nightmare for me and sometimes, it is too late to do anything to help the member. The earlier a supervisor knows there is an issue, not matter how small it seems to the member, the better the CoC can be prepared to help. New recruits often do not realize that their "small" problems can have big implications WRT the CF.

You're absolutely right. It's all too easy for small issues to snowball into big ones. I would never advocate hiding problems from the CoC, just that it was easier for some members to deal with issues (that the CoC already knew about) on their own time and give a quick verbal report back rather than writing memos and making formal appointments. Just a simpler approach that seemed to work in these cases, but everybody and every situation is different.
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Re: Official Policy Change RE: Electronics during BMQ/BMOQ
« Reply #327 on: January 12, 2012, 15:58:44 »
but everybody and every situation is different.

Thank you for stating the blatantly obvious. You may not believe it but i have seen and dealt with problems you cannot imagine. When i tell you that a recruit's entire world will not come to an end (as in : all problems can be addressed appropriately) if he doesn't have a cellphone/internet for a few weeks, you can take that to the bank.
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Offline ObedientiaZelum

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Re: Official Policy Change RE: Electronics during BMQ/BMOQ
« Reply #328 on: January 13, 2012, 11:01:59 »
Jules, let me try a different approach.

Having recruits use cellphones isn't going to destroy the Canadian Forces. There i said it! :)

What a lot of us are trying to argue and hammer home is that taking recruits "stuff" away is a way to indoctrinate them and preparing them for having no access to that stuff. That includes all the "minor snowballing emergencies" which honestly aren't as big of a deal as people make them out to be.
I don't want to say "You don't know what it's like until you experience it, maaaaaan" but  it's true.  Sitting at basic training may not seem like a big deal and you can say "I'm sure I can easily function without my cellphone/stuff" but until you have to you don't really know.  "We" have seen lots of people literally go to crap because they don't have their stuff. It plays a huge psychological factor in a lot of people.  You would be surprised at how very miniscule things can psychologically effect someone.
We sent a Sgt home from Afghanistan because he couldn't disconnect from the internet. He kept sneaking off during duty to check his mail.  Lot of wasted money there.

We deprive recruits of sleep because it will be something they face in their career down the road and they need to experience it in a training environment first.
Different courses deprive soldiers of food (quantity and quality) to prepare them for modified diets they may face.
We put weight on soldiers backs and make them do rucksack marches to prepare them for carrying weight around on their back in the future.
We yell and scream (in a fashion) so that when stress levels are through the roof and everything is chaotic and someone yells GET THE %&#$ OUT OF THE WAY the person reacts and moves- not sit down and get teary eyed because someone raised their voice at them.
We give recruits 5 minutes to do an 8 minute job to jack up their stress levels. See who the leaders are, see who the followers are, see who turns into a bag of poop.
We do inspections and catch you trying to take short cuts to teach you NOT to take short cuts and to do the job right the first time.

Disconnecting with your family, the news, social media, electronics and free time is a major thing soldiers are forced to deal with on training and during operations. If a soldier is too bent out of shape because he or she hasn't spoken to their loved ones in a couple of days then they won't see the little wire half burried in the sand they're about to kick. Or realize that they didn't take their mag off when they unloaded their rifle and are about to fire off their action into a tent wall. 

This is actually a much bigger issue than recruit school. We as a society are progressively finding it more and more difficult to disconnect from "things".



You mentioned it's easier for recruits to deal with some issues on their own. The same recruits that don't follow simple orders (Don't use your cell until X time). They lack discipline and self-control.
The problem is the same troops take advantage of the "deal with it on your own" approach where upon every little thing becomes an emergency and you can bet your beret they will invent ALL kinds of "issues" they need to deal with if it means they get time away from PT, training, cleaning weapons, watchful gaze of their instructors.

You may not see it from your perspective, and being new to the CF that's totally understandable.  Instructors HAVE seen it. It's the same reason why we know that you guys hide stuff under your pillows and in your boots during inspection.  We've dealt with it in the past so so we know what to expect.
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Offline -Jules-

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Re: Official Policy Change RE: Electronics during BMQ/BMOQ
« Reply #329 on: January 13, 2012, 17:27:02 »
Grimaldus,

All fair points even if we do disagree on some of the issues. This is definitely something that I'm going to be following a little more closely now that I've seen all the strong opinions that people have.

I've enjoyed our discussion but, as I don't see either of us changing our minds, perhaps it is time to let this one rest?

Talk to me in a few years and see if I still agree with everything I said in my original post.  ;D

Jules
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Offline Wilamanjaro

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Re: Official Policy Change RE: Electronics during BMQ/BMOQ
« Reply #330 on: March 23, 2012, 11:53:40 »
Just skimmed this topic as it seems to get a little out of hand.

I've heard from someone who is now finished BMQ and close to finishing BMQ-L that some people brought their xbox and TV. Are things like these allowed? Seems a little crazy but if it's acceptable I just might bring mine, it'd be a great way to communicate with friends back home on the weekends.

Offline dangerboy

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Re: Official Policy Change RE: Electronics during BMQ/BMOQ
« Reply #331 on: March 23, 2012, 12:31:19 »
It depends on where you do the course.  If you show up to LFWA TC with a TV and X-Box they will get locked up and you will not see it till the day you leave. I can not speak to the policy at any other training centre.
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Online Jim Seggie

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Re: Official Policy Change RE: Electronics during BMQ/BMOQ
« Reply #332 on: March 23, 2012, 12:50:31 »
It depends on where you do the course.  If you show up to LFWA TC with a TV and X-Box they will get locked up and you will not see it till the day you leave. I can not speak to the policy at any other training centre.

Big meanies in Wainwright....sheesh!!  ;)
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Offline Deelo

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Re: Official Policy Change RE: Electronics during BMQ/BMOQ
« Reply #333 on: March 23, 2012, 22:15:52 »
What a lot of us are trying to argue and hammer home is that taking recruits "stuff" away is a way to indoctrinate them and preparing them for having no access to that stuff... We as a society are progressively finding it more and more difficult to disconnect from "things"...

Well said. As someone about to partake in BMQ at the Mega, I can't agree more. That said, I will enjoy access to my iPhone if/when I am allowed said privilege, and if/when I have the time after other tasks.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2012, 22:18:38 by Deelo »

Offline RDJP

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Re: Official Policy Change RE: Electronics during BMQ/BMOQ
« Reply #334 on: March 23, 2012, 23:28:22 »
I've heard from someone who is now finished BMQ and close to finishing BMQ-L that some people brought their xbox and TV.

In the words of today's younger generation....."WTF?"

Offline stealthylizard

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Re: Official Policy Change RE: Electronics during BMQ/BMOQ
« Reply #335 on: March 24, 2012, 00:37:21 »
Went through the Mega in 2008.  No one that I know of brought a TV and/or an xbox.  I am almost positive it would be confiscated until course end.  People did have PSP's and DS's, but they were locked up until at least the weekend of your first weekend leave.  Cell phones were also locked up until that weekend.  Sunday night, they were all locked back up again.  They do have pay phones available for use, (to pay bills with telephone banking and communicate with loved ones).  If you have earned the privilege of having a bit of free time in the evenings, there were also internet kiosks set up around the mega.

In Wainwright for DP1 (infantry), it was pretty much the same thing.  All electronics, including cell phones were locked up until a weekend where you had earned the privilege to access them.  There were also pay phones, and the junior ranks had wifi service for those with lap tops.
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Offline cypres78

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Re: Official Policy Change RE: Electronics during BMQ/BMOQ
« Reply #336 on: March 24, 2012, 09:20:43 »
Just skimmed this topic as it seems to get a little out of hand.

I've heard from someone who is now finished BMQ and close to finishing BMQ-L that some people brought their xbox and TV. Are things like these allowed? Seems a little crazy but if it's acceptable I just might bring mine, it'd be a great way to communicate with friends back home on the weekends.

A TV and XBox is a good way to communicate?..I must be getting old.

Offline Wilamanjaro

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Re: Official Policy Change RE: Electronics during BMQ/BMOQ
« Reply #337 on: March 26, 2012, 21:06:27 »
A TV and XBox is a good way to communicate?..I must be getting old.

To reiterate:

...remind my old buddies that I am the king...

Offline RDJP

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Re: Official Policy Change RE: Electronics during BMQ/BMOQ
« Reply #338 on: March 26, 2012, 21:16:02 »
To reiterate:

...remind my old buddies that I am the king...

IMO, and take it with a grain of salt as it has been a few years (gulp - decades!) for me....if you have time to be "king" on Basic, you're doing it wrong....

Offline AgentSmith

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Re: Official Policy Change RE: Electronics during BMQ/BMOQ
« Reply #339 on: March 26, 2012, 21:21:23 »

I've heard from someone who is now finished BMQ and close to finishing BMQ-L that some people brought their xbox and TV. Are things like these allowed? Seems a little crazy but if it's acceptable I just might bring mine, it'd be a great way to communicate with friends back home on the weekends.

I'd recommend leaving the xbox and tv at home as you will have more important things to worry about on basic. Besides it will likely be locked up for a very long time and in the end it's more stuff you have to carry with you. 
Insert cool saying here

Offline Wilamanjaro

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Re: Official Policy Change RE: Electronics during BMQ/BMOQ
« Reply #340 on: March 26, 2012, 21:22:37 »
thank you, yes, i will not be bringing such things.

Offline Wilamanjaro

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Re: Official Policy Change RE: Electronics during BMQ/BMOQ
« Reply #341 on: March 27, 2012, 00:07:59 »
and i only meant "the king" at the video games. i understand how low i will be on the food chain in basic.