Author Topic: Remedial measures question.  (Read 2909 times)

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Offline Navigate

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Remedial measures question.
« on: December 20, 2011, 12:27:43 »
Well I'm just looking for inputs as I have a situation where I had CBRN training, received a email which was pretty long stating that the CBRN has been moved to my unit the day before the training in the low portion of the email, last sentence. On there website there is information of the location and timings for the training, which is where I went and two other members went as well at the same place. When I arrived there, it was the range here, there was nobody there but us, we called training which didn't call us back and was told that there was no CBRN booked for that day from range staff, not having read the whole email and there was no mention of it from my Sgt which sent me the email that day I thought that it was cancelled.
This training was on my normal time off so I just went back home.
I was then questioned as to the reasons why I miss training but was found that there was a problem with the way the message for the change of location has been sent.
I then received an IC because of this, indicating that I had a deficiency because they are stating that I did not used all the available resources to make sure I didn't miss the training. Also to correct the deficiency I have to take care of training and making sure that everyone knows the location and timing of there training, pretty much doing what training should have done in the first place.
Not sure what I should do with this or just looking into input as to what you guys would do in this situation. An IC or any remedial measures goes on your record permanently.
My apologies if this is in the wrong section. I'm new here on the forum.


CN: I received a long email with a change of location for CBRN training at the end of it, there website indicates a different location, I didn't read the email completely, went to the wrong place, called training with no answers. Was told by range staff that there was no CBRN booked that day. Went back home and received an IC for not using all available resources.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2011, 13:11:44 by Navigate »

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Re: Remedial measures question.
« Reply #1 on: December 20, 2011, 12:40:14 »
Wow, that's a hard read.  What I'm getting is that you didn't read the email thoroughly.
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Re: Remedial measures question.
« Reply #2 on: December 20, 2011, 12:45:03 »
Wow, that's a hard read.  What I'm getting is that you didn't read the email thoroughly.

You did better than me, i gave up at the second line......
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Re: Remedial measures question.
« Reply #3 on: December 20, 2011, 12:47:33 »
You did better than me, i gave up at the second line......

Well, the bit about the CBRN trg being moved was in the first line.   ;)

I'm sarcastic and have a smart-*** attitude.  It's a natural defence against drama, bullshit and stupidity.

Offline Jim Seggie

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Re: Remedial measures question.
« Reply #4 on: December 20, 2011, 12:50:40 »
Hence why giving orders via e-mail is the wrong method IMO - can the sect commander not pick up a phone and call?

No matter what folks on here think the IC is wrong - wrong wrong -
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Re: Remedial measures question.
« Reply #5 on: December 20, 2011, 13:06:20 »
....... they are stating that I did not used all the available resources to make sure I didn't miss the training.......

...can the sect commander not pick up a phone and call?...

I agree with Jim....it sounds to me like they didn't use "all available resources" to make sure you didn't miss the training.

Maybe you should put them on IC!

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Offline Navigate

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Re: Remedial measures question.
« Reply #6 on: December 20, 2011, 13:08:03 »
Just wondering what you guys would do if you received an IC for that situation. I think its wrong to, I'm not sure if I understand the purpose of it.
I'll put a short version at the end.

Offline MedCorps

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Re: Remedial measures question.
« Reply #7 on: December 20, 2011, 13:15:25 »
There is not much you can do with an IC issued under DADO 5019-4, even if you believe that the reasons for issuing it are out out to lunch.

The options are:

1) Be pissed off and suck up do what you need to do to for the "remediation of the deficiency"

2) Mitigate the damage done by the IC. Turn a bad situation into a good situation.  Show your CoC that you have accepted thier constructive criticism (even if they are out to lunch) and become the model.  The goal here it to prevent per DAOD 5019-4:

----
A reporting officer may comment on a CF member’s conduct or performance deficiency in accordance with the policy as set out in DAOD 5059-0, Performance Assessment of Canadian Forces Members.
----

We do not want this little perceived deficiency to end up as a negative on the PER, but rather as a "leads change" "accepts responsibility" "dedication" positive comments / bubbles on the old PER. 

3) Say, screw it I am have been wronged and grieve the situation IAW DAOD 5019-4:

---
CF members who believe they have been aggrieved by any decision, act or omission under this DAOD may submit a grievance in accordance with QR&O Chapter 7, Grievances.
----

Good luck,

MC

Offline a Sig Op

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Re: Remedial measures question.
« Reply #8 on: December 20, 2011, 13:39:21 »
Information like this should be a "push" action from the chain of command, not a "pull" action from the troops...

It's a safe assumption the original poster is from a reserve unit... if there's changes to planned activities mid week between parade nights, open ended means of communications like a website do NOT work, e-mail ONLY works if it can be confirmed to be recieved...
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Re: Remedial measures question.
« Reply #9 on: December 20, 2011, 13:46:10 »
Hence why giving orders via e-mail is the wrong method IMO - can the sect commander not pick up a phone and call?

No matter what folks on here think the IC is wrong - wrong wrong -

Jim, let's not be hasty. We always get the full and accurate story from people who post here, right ?
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Offline Navigate

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Re: Remedial measures question.
« Reply #10 on: December 20, 2011, 14:08:50 »
Jim, let's not be hasty. We always get the full and accurate story from people who post here, right ?

I understand what your saying, but thats pretty much the whole truth about it. Anyways just looking for input as to what you guys would do in that situation, would you write a grievance or pretty much just take the remedial measures given that situation or maybe other things you guys would do.
Just looking for input on how you would deal with the situation pretty much.

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Re: Remedial measures question.
« Reply #11 on: December 20, 2011, 14:14:24 »
I wouldn't have given you an IC but you didn't read the email completely so ......
"Ahh..... F**k it....weapon away !!"

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Offline Crantor

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Re: Remedial measures question.
« Reply #12 on: December 20, 2011, 14:57:03 »
Information like this should be a "push" action from the chain of command, not a "pull" action from the troops...

It's a safe assumption the original poster is from a reserve unit... if there's changes to planned activities mid week between parade nights, open ended means of communications like a website do NOT work, e-mail ONLY works if it can be confirmed to be recieved...

Why would it be a safe assumption? 
Optio

Offline Navigate

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Re: Remedial measures question.
« Reply #13 on: December 20, 2011, 14:59:19 »
I'm not in a reserve unit, I'm reg force, been 12 years now :)

Offline Pusser

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Re: Remedial measures question.
« Reply #14 on: December 20, 2011, 16:00:56 »
To paraphrase an old saying, "poor leadership on your part does not constitute a deficiency on my part."

I would never give an IC to someone who missed something that had only been promulgated by email.  How does the Chain of Command know for sure that the email was even received/read?  The fact that it was apparently confusing and even contradictory needs to be taken into account as well.  It would seem to me that if the story is as the OP is telling it, then there is indeed grounds for a winnable greivance here.

On another note, if the OP has been specifically informed that he is now being assigned a task because of his "deficiency,"  one can make the argument that he is in fact being "punished."  No one can be "punished" without at least a Summary Trial.  WARNING - pointing this out could end up starting the process to conduct a Summary Trial (i.e. someone could decide to charge you for AWOA), so one needs to proceed with caution.
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Re: Remedial measures question.
« Reply #15 on: December 20, 2011, 16:07:57 »
An IC does stay on your pers file but after your monitoring period (usually 3 months) there should be a letter attached stating that you over came the deficiency for why you where place on IC and then the IC becomes a mute point and should not be held against you.
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Re: Remedial measures question.
« Reply #16 on: December 20, 2011, 16:10:43 »
Why would it be a safe assumption?

Because this is the sort of nonsense pulled regularly by reserve units... it was a reasonable assumption, maybe not completely safe.

"Didn't you get my text message" is also becoming irritatingly familiar.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2011, 16:14:02 by a Sig Op »
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Re: Remedial measures question.
« Reply #17 on: December 20, 2011, 16:16:16 »
Email has become a great way to pass the buck and avoid responsibility.

"I sent you an email.  Now it's your problem..."
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Re: Remedial measures question.
« Reply #18 on: December 20, 2011, 16:19:26 »
Navigate,

Are you a French first speaker? If so, perhaps if you posted in the French forum in your first language? Maybe something is being lost in the translation.

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Re: Remedial measures question.
« Reply #19 on: December 20, 2011, 16:25:33 »
Yeah, I'm french, but I worked in a English unit for all my career ;) Although I'm not sure if its the right place to post it in ''The Canadian Military'' forum.
Thanks guys for the feedback, its appreciated.

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Re: Remedial measures question.
« Reply #20 on: December 20, 2011, 23:59:11 »
An IC does stay on your pers file but after your monitoring period (usually 3 months) there should be a letter attached stating that you over came the deficiency for why you where place on IC and then the IC becomes a mute point and should not be held against you.

LMAO.

It's strike one of three. It'll count against him next time too, regardless of whether or not this one is successfully completed.



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Re: Remedial measures question.
« Reply #21 on: December 21, 2011, 00:20:56 »
LMAO.

It's strike one of three. It'll count against him next time too, regardless of whether or not this one is successfully completed.



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It absolutly is strike one.
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Re: Remedial measures question.
« Reply #22 on: December 21, 2011, 07:33:31 »
It absolutly is strike one.

It is but its not overly dramatic, no need to make it sound as such. I have one IC and 4 RWs on my file along with ink on my conduct sheet. Has not hurt me too much...........
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Re: Remedial measures question.
« Reply #23 on: December 21, 2011, 07:36:38 »
It is but its not overly dramatic, no need to make it sound as such. I have one IC and 4 RWs on my file along with ink on my conduct sheet. Has not hurt me too much...........

Well.....weren't you up for consideration as CDS?  ;D
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Re: Remedial measures question.
« Reply #24 on: December 21, 2011, 07:48:38 »
Well.....weren't you up for consideration as CDS?  ;D

Had to politely turn it down...i didn't like the working hours  ;D
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