Topic: Falklands 2011 - 2012

[CDN Aviator]

No

They are a Commonwealth problem.

Regards,
TN

They are no more a Commonwealth problem than back in 1982.

[Inky]

It does make me wonder if the current canadian governement would be willing to participate if war ever broke out between GB and Argentine in the Falklands.

[GAP]

I don't see us having a dog in that fight.

I can see the U.S. giving intelligence like they did in '82, but not getting involved either...

[E.R. Campbell]

I heard, (maybe just rumours?) from Brit sources - I was our of the country in the early 1980s and was "plugged in" to, inter alia, the UK military - that our ships took over some routine North Atlantic and Caribbean patrol duties to free up some UK ships for the South Atlantic.

[jollyjacktar]

Hugo Chavez sticks his oar in the debate.     Shared with the usual caveats.  Full story and photos at link. 

Venezuela threatens Britain over Falklands as its president vows to side with Argentina

Venezuela's left-wing president has raised the stakes over the Falkland Islands by pledging his armed forces would fight alongside Argentina in any conflict with Britain.  The inflammatory promise from Hugo Chavez came in the run-up to the 30th anniversary of the April 1982 invasion of the islands by Argentina.  At the same time, Foreign Secretary William Hague insisted the deployment of a British warship and Prince William to the Falklands was ‘entirely routine’.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2096978/Falkland-Islands-Venezuela-threatens-Britain-Hugo-Chavez-vows-Argentina.html#ixzz1lcdS0gW1

[jeffb]

That makes things a little more interesting... Having Venezuela jump in might just be the pretext the US would need to side with the UK in a more open fashion. Chavez has been a thorn in the side of the US for awhile now. Of course, his close ties to China could lead this to have wider political implications.

[Colin P]

China is not going to help in this, they might use it as leverage for any advantage they can gain. I suspect that South American support for another military adventure to the Falklands is a mile wide and a few mm deep.

[Robert0288]

Via: http://edition.cnn.com/2012/02/08/world/americas/argentina-uk-falklands/index.html?hpt=hp_t2
 

Port Stanley, Falkland Islands (CNN) -- Britain on Wednesday dismissed a complaint from Argentina about the "militarization of the South Atlantic" as tensions rise regarding the Falkland Islands, over which the two countries fought a war 30 years ago.
 
"The people of the Falkland Islands are British out of choice," the British Foreign Office said in a statement. "They are free to determine their own future, and there will be no negotiations with Argentina on sovereignty unless the Islanders wish it."
 
It was responding to a warning from Argentinian President Cristina Fernandez de Kirchner that her country would file a protest at the United Nations.
 
"I have instructed our chancellor to formally present before the U.N. Security Council and the U.N. General Assembly this militarization of the South Atlantic, which implies a great risk for international safety," she said during a speech in Buenos Aires.
 
 
No protest had been filed as of Wednesday afternoon, U.N. spokesman Martin Nesirky.
 
Speculation in recent days had been that she would cut the Falklands air link to the South American mainland by banning the airline LAN Chile from using Argentinian airspace to fly to the islands from Chile. The Saturday flights are the only scheduled air service to the Falklands and carry fresh food as well as passengers.
 
The president made no such announcement in her speech Tuesday.
 Why tensions are flaring over Falklands
 
Argentina already bans Falklands ships from its ports, an action joined by other South American and Caribbean nations.
 
"I guess we were all kind of relieved that there wasn't anything particularly concrete. It seems to be another burst of hot air really -- and to that degree -- we're relieved," said John Fowler, a journalist and Falkland Islands resident.
 
Britain and Argentina fought a war over the Falkland Islands, which Argentina calls Las Malvinas, in 1982. Though Britain won the war, expelling an Argentinian military force, Argentina claims the territory, which has been under British rule since 1833, as its own. Britain maintains that the 2,500 residents of the Falklands have the right to determine their allegiance, and so far that has been staunchly British.
 
"The UK has no doubt about our sovereignty over the Falklands. The principle of self-determination, as set out in the U.N. Charter, underlies our position," the Foreign Office said.
 
British Prime Minister David Cameron said residents have a right to decide.
 
"We support the Falklands' right to self-determination, and what the Argentinians have been saying recently I would argue is actually far more like colonialism, because these people want to remain British, and the Argentinians want them to do something else."
 
Addressing Cameron directly in her speech, Fernandez said: "I simply want to ask the prime minister of England to give peace a chance."
 
Tensions between London and Buenos Aires were raised even higher this month when Britain sent Prince William to the Falklands as a military helicopter pilot.
 
The prince's deployment comes as Britain is making other moves to support its 1,700 personnel at the Mount Pleasant military complex in the Falklands.
 
"We are having what in game theory is called tit-for-tat ... I don't see an end in sight right now, but I'm sure that war is not the end," Federico Merke, a professor of international relations at San Andres University, said after the president's speech.
 
So why, besides supporting the Falklands' inhabitants, does Britain want to hang on to the islands? The answer may lie in the lucrative fishing grounds around the islands as well as a growing oil drilling industry.
 
Argentina, of course, has economic interests as well, but analysts say the current standoff has much to do with internal politics.
 
"The government is being squeezed from lots of different areas, so one way to distract from the economic problems facing the country is to raise the Malvinas issue," said Mark Jones, an expert in Latin American politics at Rice University in Texas. "It's one of the few issues outside football that you can get universal consensus on."

I agree with the last paragraph.  Nothing brings a nation together better than an external enemy.  Also what is this sillyness about bringing the UN in?  What are they going to protest?

[Colin P]

Maybe the UN can demine the place. speaking of which who is paying for the demining effort? maybe they should airmail the mines home....

[milnews.ca]

More from the Thin Pinstriped Line blog on why Argentina is going down U.N. road on this one...

.... So why is Argentina doing this? Were the author cynical, he'd suggest that it owed a great deal to the needs of the President to avoid diverting attention away from internal politics, the growing disputes with the media, the poor economic situation and the wider problems that Argentina has. International affairs are fantastic for diverting attention away from inconvenient local problems. President Kirchner would benefit greatly from diverting attention away from her woes, and also perhaps gaining a popularity boost to boot ....

- edited to fix whack job spelling errors -

[Colin P]

Having a debate on the ADA in the Falklands, anyone have current information about their Air-defense systems there?

[daftandbarmy]

Having a debate on the ADA in the Falklands, anyone have current information about their Air-defense systems there?

Looks like 16 Regt with Rapier http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Artillery

[Bird_Gunner45]

Looks like 16 Regt with Rapier http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Artillery

Yeah, when we were there in the autumn they had mentioned that they were upping the GBAD presence, with a minimum of 1 Regiment of Rapier.  That many systems in that small an area should effectively neutralize the Argentinian AF, particularly if they deploy early warning radar

[Larry Strong]

Yeah, when we were there in the autumn they had mentioned that they were upping the GBAD presence, with a minimum of 1 Regiment of Rapier.  That many systems in that small an area should effectively neutralize the Argentinian AF, particularly if they deploy early warning radar

Are they a good system?

[Bird_Gunner45]

Are they a good system?

By modern standards it's not a terribly effective system, and like any other system requires a mixed layer approached to maximize coverage (mixed with a gun and MANPAD system).  That said, the systems themselves should be effective agaisnt what the Argentines can throw out, particularly if there is a good early warning system in place.

[Larry Strong]

Thanks for the info

Larry

[tomahawk6]

The Brits have deployed a Type 45 air defense destroyer to the Falklands,which is a very capable platform. One type 45 is equal to 5 type 42 destroyers. It also has stealth characteristics. The chance of the Argentines replicating their 83 invasion is virtually nil IMO. There are UK nuclear attack subs in the vicinity of the Falklands with Tomahawk missiles which would destroy any major surface vessels and take out Argentine air bases.Alot of pain for no gain which isnt smart for an Argentine politician.

[daftandbarmy]

The Brits have deployed a Type 45 air defense destroyer to the Falklands,which is a very capable platform. One type 45 is equal to 5 type 42 destroyers. It also has stealth characteristics. The chance of the Argentines replicating their 83 invasion is virtually nil IMO. There are UK nuclear attack subs in the vicinity of the Falklands with Tomahawk missiles which would destroy any major surface vessels and take out Argentine air bases.Alot of pain for no gain which isnt smart for an Argentine politician.

Interesting: 'smart' and 'politician' are seldom seen in the same sentence. 

[tomahawk6]

To be fair,it wasnt the Argentine politicians that started the Falklands War but the military junta.

[jollyjacktar]

Sean Penn accuses Britain of 'colonialism' over Falklands
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/southamerica/falklandislands/9080473/Sean-Penn-accuses-Britain-of-colonialism-over-Falklands.html
 
and the response from some quarters:

'Sean Penn's an idiot and a fool': Falklands hero Simon Weston hits back at bleeding heart actor's explosive remarks on disputed islands
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2100858/Sean-Penns-idiot-fool-Falklands-hero-Simon-Weston-hits-back.html

Pride of Britain: Falkland Islanders stage 4x4 convoy to tell Sean Penn where to stick his views
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2102552/Pride-Britain-Falkland-Islanders-stage-4x4-convoy-tell-Sean-Penn-stick-views.html

[jeffb]

'Sean Penn's an idiot and a fool': Falklands hero Simon Weston hits back at bleeding heart actor's explosive remarks on disputed islands
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2100858/Sean-Penns-idiot-fool-Falklands-hero-Simon-Weston-hits-back.html

He may be that on this issue but at least Sean Penn put's his money and his time where his mouth is unlike so many of the celebrity types. http://jphro.org/ Apparently, he spent quite a long time living in a refugee camp in Haiti after the quake.

[daftandbarmy]

He may be that on this issue but at least Sean Penn put's his money and his time where his mouth is unlike so many of the celebrity types. http://jphro.org/ Apparently, he spent quite a long time living in a refugee camp in Haiti after the quake.

Must have picked up something terminal there, which would explain why he's clearly gone insane....

[jeffb]

Safe to say the guys who are most opposed to an invasion of the Falkland's are probably the pilots in the Argentine Air Force. 

[I, Citizen]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-17157373

Large info-graphic at link on the present day capabilities of each side. Sorry, I couldn't paste it in due to the formatting.

[daftandbarmy]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-17157373

Large info-graphic at link on the present day capabilities of each side. Sorry, I couldn't paste it in due to the formatting.

Here's an info graphic they should send to Argentina.