Author Topic: PT- Running with weight and gasmask  (Read 3740 times)

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Offline ObedientiaZelum

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PT- Running with weight and gasmask
« on: January 18, 2012, 22:03:50 »
To alleviate the tediousness of running on a treadmill I started running with body armor, training plates and a gasmask.

Is there anything really detrimental to running with a mask on? Obviously it makes breathing more difficult but is there a risk of any long term harm?

I'm also told through a friend a couple airforce members don't like seeing it. Is using PPE during personal PT allowed?
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Offline MJP

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Re: PT- Running with weight and gasmask
« Reply #1 on: January 18, 2012, 22:19:38 »

Is there anything really detrimental to running with a mask on? Obviously it makes breathing more difficult but is there a risk of any long term harm?

I'm also told through a friend a couple airforce members don't like seeing it. Is using PPE during personal PT allowed?

Other than looking like an douche AFAIK it has no long term effects.  Gas masks during workout seems to be the new craze out there.

We wear PPE for PT at times, this really is no different as long as you aren't destroying it.
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Offline Lil r

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Re: PT- Running with weight and gasmask
« Reply #2 on: January 18, 2012, 22:30:38 »
Just have a spotter when working out like that, wouldn't want to overheat and pass out.
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Gas masks during workout seems to be the new craze out there.
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Offline Rider Pride

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Re: PT- Running with weight and gasmask
« Reply #3 on: January 18, 2012, 22:38:02 »
Instead of providing yourself with session of self induced c@ck which will make anyone who sees you doing this question your sanity, perhaps you should look at other cardio activities that are not just running on a treadmill.

Jumping rope for instance,

Tabata intervals squats or burpees or anything else you want to do,

1 minute speed or elevation training on your tread mill,

or just breath exclusively through your nose while you run

Nobody knows what the harmful long term effects of doing cardio with a gas mask on because there are no medical researchers whom would ethically subject people to such a test.

As for adding weight, via weight vest or pack, there is science. The largest risk is the added pressure to the joints and a relative increase in the risk of developing degenerative joint disease later, esp if you are running long. This was evident by all the broken people who ran in cbt boots with rucks on.

If you are going to do this, like the five fingers shoe training period, you should restrict your increases to 10% (of weight or distance, not both) per week. Ideally you do this for a workout which is more involved than just a straight run. Also, start working to strengthen your abs, because it will add strain on your back too.

« Last Edit: January 18, 2012, 22:41:53 by Rider Pride »
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Offline Rider Pride

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Re: PT- Running with weight and gasmask
« Reply #4 on: January 18, 2012, 22:40:05 »
Gas masks during workout seems to be the new craze out there.


Guess it is true that stupidity is more contagious than knowledge.
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Re: PT- Running with weight and gasmask
« Reply #5 on: January 18, 2012, 22:49:42 »
I dont run with weight but I ruck with it. I also train with a gas mask- because I work in a gas mask- and I put out better than the super fit who dont train with one when we both strap one on.

The argument is that it can simulate altitude training to a lesser degree and it used by lots of professional MMA fighters- who have their own mask now but originally were using snorkels taped to their heads.

I train for "c@ck" like conditions so that I dont care that much when they happen. I dont expect everyone to get it.
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Offline ObedientiaZelum

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Re: PT- Running with weight and gasmask
« Reply #6 on: January 18, 2012, 22:55:52 »
Oh I didn't catch stupidity, we've been friends a while  ;)

I'll usually change up the runs and not just go at one speed for 40 minutes.
5mph pace on the machine for a few minutes then speed it up to a sprint for a minute or two then drop it down to a walk for a few minutes, sometimes I'll throw up the incline.
It may be a placebo effect but it feels like my normal sprints are improved.

As for running with the vest, I notice if I push it too much my knee gets just a little sore but at the end of the day even with the vest and plates I still weight 8 or 9 pounds less than what I did when I started running.

I never thought about jump rope, thanks.  I got a nose like Owen Wilson, no way I could breath though that honker alone.
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Offline Rider Pride

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Re: PT- Running with weight and gasmask
« Reply #7 on: January 18, 2012, 23:00:12 »
Oh I didn't catch stupidity, we've been friends a while  ;)

You might be resistant.

You questioned what you could do instead of just jumping on the bandwagon.
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Offline cypres78

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Re: PT- Running with weight and gasmask
« Reply #8 on: January 18, 2012, 23:53:27 »
Gas Mask?? Haha is this a serious thread?

Offline RDJP

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Re: PT- Running with weight and gasmask
« Reply #9 on: January 19, 2012, 01:00:07 »
I got a nose like Owen Wilson, no way I could breath though that honker alone.

If that's true, you should be able to do 4 minute miles, breathing only through that schnozzle.  ;D

Hang on....maybe you'd suck the mask right to your face.  :o

Offline ballz

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Re: PT- Running with weight and gasmask
« Reply #10 on: January 19, 2012, 05:11:41 »
I'll usually change up the runs and not just go at one speed for 40 minutes.
5mph pace on the machine for a few minutes then speed it up to a sprint for a minute or two then drop it down to a walk for a few minutes, sometimes I'll throw up the incline.
It may be a placebo effect but it feels like my normal sprints are improved.

That's interval training for you, and it will improve your sprints and your distance runs.

As for running with the vest, I notice if I push it too much my knee gets just a little sore but at the end of the day even with the vest and plates I still weight 8 or 9 pounds less than what I did when I started running.

And that's really the set-back about running with weight, it can be pretty detrimental to the joints. I don't know how much you weigh, but I have a 40 pound weight vest. Consider if you were a 200 pound person, performing like a 200 pound person, but the impact on your joints is that of an overweight 240 pound person, doing things that an overweight 240 pound person wouldn't be able to do to his joints because he's too out of shape.

I use the weight vest for training on stairs, hill sprints, and for ruckmarching, as well as for callisthenics (it's made a huge difference on my push ups), because there's less impact. I am looking at buying a parachute for sprint training, I used them from ages 14-17 when I played hockey competitively and they were great training tools with a lot less chance of injury / stress on joints. Something you might want to consider as opposed to sprinting with weight.
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Offline ObedientiaZelum

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Re: PT- Running with weight and gasmask
« Reply #11 on: January 19, 2012, 09:15:26 »
Gas Mask?? Haha is this a serious thread?

No I'm just joking. You should never train wearing a gaskmask for things you might be exposed to like physical exertion, shooting, applying first aid etc..


If that's true, you should be able to do 4 minute miles, breathing only through that schnozzle.  ;D

Hang on....maybe you'd suck the mask right to your face.  :o

It's big but crooked, air has to twist and turn to get around all the bends. Requires more effort! 
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Offline Pusser

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Re: PT- Running with weight and gasmask
« Reply #12 on: January 19, 2012, 12:56:53 »
To alleviate the tediousness of running on a treadmill I started running with body armor, training plates and a gasmask.

Not quite sure how piling on weight and restricting your breathing alleviates tedium.  As far as I can see, you'd still be bored, just more tired.

If you want to make running interesting, check out this routine:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L30rynCHwPs&feature=youtube_gdata_player

This one's even better (except for the leaping off the cliff part): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MLctf4o6feQ
« Last Edit: January 19, 2012, 23:33:34 by Pusser »
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Offline cypres78

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Re: PT- Running with weight and gasmask
« Reply #13 on: January 19, 2012, 13:10:35 »
No I'm just joking. You should never train wearing a gaskmask for things you might be exposed to like physical exertion, shooting, applying first aid etc..


Im no stranger to sarcasm ;D

I can't help but laugh thinking of being out running and crossing paths with someone running wearing a gas mask. 

 To each his own.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2012, 13:13:42 by cypres78 »

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Re: PT- Running with weight and gasmask
« Reply #14 on: January 19, 2012, 13:22:44 »
Im no stranger to sarcasm ;D

I can't help but laugh thinking of being out running and crossing paths with someone running wearing a gas mask. 

 To each his own.

I'd be looking for said individual to see if he/she (weirdness knows no bounds and cuts across all demographics) was carrying a bloody machete.

« Last Edit: January 19, 2012, 13:26:52 by Jim Seggie »
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Re: PT- Running with weight and gasmask
« Reply #15 on: January 19, 2012, 13:23:12 »
I can't help but laugh thinking of being out running and crossing paths with someone running wearing a gas mask. 
Until further down the trail when you find the toxic spill the masked-up person was running from.   ;D


I agree that it probably looks retarded......but think of it as resistance training for the lungs, for someone who can't afford to fly to the mountains to train at elevation.
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Offline SentryMAn

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Re: PT- Running with weight and gasmask
« Reply #16 on: January 19, 2012, 13:33:41 »
You could buy a Altitude tent and Be like Lance.

Offline MJP

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Re: PT- Running with weight and gasmask
« Reply #18 on: January 19, 2012, 13:45:59 »
Personally I don't see any real reason not to train like that, especially for someone that actually needs to work in that equipment (other than the looks you get from folks - best not done in public).  You need to be able to regulate your breathing and your muscles have to adapt to a change in delivery time of the O2.  Go watch a youtube video called "First Among Equals" about the NZSAS - you get to see some training sessions of the boys on their counter-terror training doing PT in their respirators for two reasons: they have to be able to do CT in a CBRN environment, and they wear them routinely as part of their assault kit, so they train in them.

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Offline ObedientiaZelum

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Re: PT- Running with weight and gasmask
« Reply #19 on: January 19, 2012, 14:34:08 »
Im no stranger to sarcasm ;D

I can't help but laugh thinking of being out running and crossing paths with someone running wearing a gas mask. 

 To each his own.

I hear ya.  If I was out running around the streets in a gaskmask and I passed someone else in a gasmask I'd snort and make fun of them too  ;D


While I don't run around the streets with it on, if it looks a little retarded but makes me stronger I'm willing to wear a little egg on my face over it.

I was reading up about it in the Journal of Sports Science.   It says it;
Quote
Training the muscles responsible for breathing in – inspiratory muscles – can improve performance by 15 per cent, meaning a runner can run for longer and a swimmer can swim faster
-Dr Mitch Lomax, university of Indiana's Department of Sport and Exercise Science


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Re: PT- Running with weight and gasmask
« Reply #20 on: January 19, 2012, 14:40:39 »
Run farther from Zombies, swim faster from sharks mutated sea bass with frickin laser beams attached to their heads? Sold

There - fixed.
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Offline Spectrum

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Re: PT- Running with weight and gasmask
« Reply #21 on: January 19, 2012, 16:16:33 »
Hey Grimaldus, let's be PT buddies!
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Re: PT- Running with weight and gasmask
« Reply #22 on: January 19, 2012, 19:19:18 »

I was reading up about it in the Journal of Sports Science.   It says it; -Dr Mitch Lomax, university of Indiana's Department of Sport and Exercise Science
Quote
Training the muscles responsible for breathing in – inspiratory muscles – can improve performance by 15 per cent, meaning a runner can run for longer and a swimmer can swim faster


While I haven't seen professional journal articles or the original study by Dr. Lomax, I did find that an article about Dr. Lomax's study was quoted in another thread Physical Fitness (Jogging, Diet, Cardiovascular, and Strength ).  Since it may seem that you equate training in a gas mask to training the respiratory muscles as per Dr. Lomax's study, I'll requote some pertinent passages from that article.

http://nextbigfuture.com/2011/04/training-breathing-muscles-can-boost.html
Quote
. . . . .  IMT involves the use of a hand-held device that provides resistance as one inhales through it, requiring greater use of inspiratory muscles. For half of the study participants, the IMT device was set to a level that provided resistance as the subjects took a fast forceful breath in. For six weeks they took 30 breaths at this setting twice a day. The cyclists in the control group did the same exercises with the IMT adjusted to a minimal level.

. . . . . .

    In the study, Dr Lomax used an inspiratory muscle training device which works in a similar way to other resistance training devices to build muscle strength. An athlete doing training would use such a device to do one set of 30 breaths twice a day. For inspiratory muscle warm-up, because the power-boosting effect of warm-up exercises typically dissipates within half an hour, an athlete would use the device to do two sets of 30 breaths immediately before the sporting event for best results.

. . . . . .

    She also said it is important athletes and coaches use the device correctly because, as with any other sports equipment, if used incorrectly it could do more harm than good. “If it isn’t done right, there is the risk of hyperventilating and passing out. Technique with these devices really matters because they can also cause injury or strain if they aren’t used correctly.”

    Dr Lomax tested 12 runners over six weeks and found that those who did inspiratory muscle warm-ups improved their times by 5-7 per cent; those who did inspiratory muscle training improved their times by 12 per cent; and those who did both improved by 15 per cent. Dr Lomax said those were very conservative figures and did not rule out athletes making even greater gains. A sample size of 12 is a typical sample in sport and exercise physiological studies.

It should be made clear that this study was not about training while wearing a gas mask, but rather a breathing device that restricted the flow of air.  The device was not used continually during a training period.

I am nowhere near a SME on exercise physiology or even much interested these days in performing at peak physical condition (I'll pause while those who know me snort and make rude remarks about when or if I was ever interested in being in peak physical condition).  However, there was a time when my primary duties (and some odd secondary duties) exposed me to some of the things being discussed.

The breathing exercises (and breathing device) proposed in the study reminds me much of the "breathing physio" that post-op cardiac patients had to do nearly 30 years ago when I worked in the cardiac unit at NDMC.  The intent was probably much the same - to get the individuals to breathe deep and exercise the muscles involve in respiration - it did not restrict the total amount of air inspired nor did it lead to hypoxia.  Do not automatically assume that training while wearing a gas mask will equal the inspiratory muscle exercises as per Dr. Lomax's study.  There is no measurement of the breath intake while wearing a gas mask.  One can just as easily continue breathing but taking in less air, thus leading to hypoxia.

But there can (possibly, maybe, hopefully) some benefit in training in hypoxia.  During my quick google search I did come across some relatively recent (within the last ten years) journal articles about exercise results in both normobaric and hypobaric hypoxic conditions.  It seemed that the goals of these research studies was often aimed at the obese - a way to increase the workload without increasing the physical demands on joints etc.

The only time I've ever done PT while wearing a gas mask was during BOTC, but that was punishment c**k because there were stupid people on course.  On one of the few instances when I observed a soldier seriously doing individual PT in a gas mask, he passed out; however he was a stupid person and that was not the only sample of his idiotic behaviour.  It's a good example for making the case that doing PT in a gas mask should be a controlled activity, not something that should be done alone.


Nobody knows what the harmful long term effects of doing cardio with a gas mask on because there are no medical researchers whom would ethically subject people to such a test.

While I know of no studies that were specifically aimed at doing PT in a gas mask, there has been some research into effects of physical activity while wearing gas masks and other elements of NBC ensemble.  I'm personally familiar with some conducted in Canada in the 1970s.  I couldn't quote the results or even the intent of the studies; at the time I was more interested in the test allowance and the extra days of leave granted for each individual test.

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Re: PT- Running with weight and gasmask
« Reply #23 on: January 19, 2012, 20:57:26 »
Training with weight on your back? Sounds totally whacked out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9V8X01mewno

Unless you're training for war in the infantry, I guess....
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Offline ObedientiaZelum

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Re: PT- Running with weight and gasmask
« Reply #24 on: January 20, 2012, 10:45:54 »
I didn't dig down that deep, good find Blackadder.

The little device they use in the article, I imagine, would be significantly harder to breathe through that a gas mask.
Pro's and con's to it I guess. 
I can't imagine CJIRU not doing all kinds of PT with gasmasks on and and bunny suits all done up and my friend did the army run- 5k-  in TOPP high (forget the new term). 

The videos on the NZSAS are pretty neat. It sounds like they do a lot of running (and shooting) with the masks on.

Hey Grimaldus, let's be PT buddies!
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