Topic: Blast-in-place posted on YouTube: "Canadian Soldiers Blowing Up...House for Fun"

[Kalatzi]

http://www.davidicke.com/headlines/59927-canadian-soldiers-blowing-up-an-afghan-villagers-house-for-fun

Ummm, without any more background several questions come to mind.

I assume that thate is a perfectly valid reason reason for doing this.

Posting this video on youtube without some substantiation of above perfectly valid reason, causes me to call into question the ummm judgement of some of the individuals in the film.

Where was Command??


*mod edit to threat title to indicate nature of subject video"

[dogger1936]

A few blocks of C-4 don't go up like that. A weapons cache of HME and arty rounds controlled BIP. (hear where he said I'm gonna go down at check it right at the end...thats for unexploded ordinance left and if the bip was a success) Or it could have been a building rigged to blow with a pressure plate in the door and they bip'ed the thing cause...well..playing around in booby trapped houses has never really gone well for many people.

The witch hunt has started.....I think whoever uploaded this should be trailed for slander of the brave Echo C/S's who BIP's this thing risking their lifes.

[dogger1936]

He also apparently believes a reptilian bloodline rules the word...so....really?

[dogger1936]

He also believes cancer is a fungus....imagine that.

[dogger1936]

We now have 17hr days...due to the reptilians

http://www.davidicke.com/headlines/58627-david-icke-disconnecting-from-the-reptilian-brain-and-the-parasites-

[Kalatzi]

Dogger1936

Thanks - Watching it again it certainly was more than a couple of blocks of C4.

My earlier comments about the lack of substantiation stand.

Who Knows - maybe this stuff is all over youtube, I have NO interest in looking for it.

I just think back to all the talk of the "Stratgic Corporal" - make that Servicemember

Human nature this stuff unexplained seems to undo a pile of good.

[dogger1936]

Absolutely.

However if they were blowing it for "fun" they would not have enough c-4 to do their job of disarming huge  IED's placed by talib's who kill and mame unexpecting civilians, and many times our own men/women by rigging buildings.

While I was not at this specific BIP it was either a few things:

Building was rigged to blow. I've seen this 7 times with about the same results as in the video. Little c-4 and boom.

Chalked full of HME (i.e a bomb factory.)

Any civilians left in the bast zone would have been ushered away from the scene and security would have been placed around the BIP to prevent anyone from watching our Echo's do the brave work they do OR walk into the BIP zone.

While it may have been "fun" to BIP this house; it was fun only due to denying the taliban another kill of an innocent life.

[CDN Aviator]

causes me to call into question the ummm judgement of some of the individuals in the film.

Where was Command??

Maybe you just need to STFU.

From a questionable blog and a short video, you managed to tell that troops did something wrong and that the chain of command was not doing anything about it. Great job.

[lethalLemon]

It's things like this that make people think of us as simply war mongers and baby killers yet refuse to speak to the real people behind the uniforms to get the truth.

Sure there's always a couple bad apples but you get that everywhere, we're humans with free will - not machines.

[CDN Aviator]

It's things like this

Things like what ?

I see something blowing up and people cheering. Nothing wrong with either one.

[ArmyVern]

Maybe you just need to STFU.

From a questionable blog and a short video, you managed to tell that troops did something wrong and that the chain of command was not doing anything about it. Great job.

+100.

It's obviously a controlled det which Dogger has already called - certainly not an impromptu "let's just blow up this house for shiggles moment."  Nice controlled detonation of a weapons cache and that's all it is; nothing nefarious given the big boom that goes with it. CF troops can't afford to expend money on the amount of C4 it would have taken to make that big a boom  ... especially if their only interest was destroying the "family" home; the house would have been destroyed using a much smaller boom if it were actually the target. The size of the boom in this video itself proves it wasn't --- it was what was cached in that building that caused the huge boom with a little help from a little C4 from us.

[lethalLemon]

Things like what ?

I see something blowing up and people cheering. Nothing wrong with either one.

The "things" I was referring to was blindly accusing them of blowing up a family home for a hard-on

[ArmyVern]

Things like what ?

I think she's referring to the blog post itself, not the video.

[CDN Aviator]

The "things" I was referring to was blindly accusing them of blowing up a family home for a hard-on

Ok, thank you. Sorry i took it differently.

[lethalLemon]

Ok, thank you. Sorry i took it differently.

Nah, it's no big deal. I didn't really write for ease of clarity etc. My statement wasn't very clear as to which subject matter I am displease with. 


(I'm losing my mind or something)

[ModlrMike]

Nothing more than a conspiracy theorist reposting propaganda from Iran's internet TV outlet.

[ballz]

And then you go the actual link for the youtube video and the subtitle for the video by the person who posted it is

"May Allah swt destroy them by the hand of Mujahideen, Ameen."

 

So that's probably got something to do with "why" the perfectly valid reason is not explained.

[Retired AF Guy]

A few blocks of C-4 don't go up like that. A weapons cache of HME and arty rounds controlled BIP. (hear where he said I'm gonna go down at check it right at the end...thats for unexploded ordinance left and if the bip was a success) Or it could have been a building rigged to blow with a pressure plate in the door and they bip'ed the thing cause...well..playing around in booby trapped houses has never really gone well for many people.

The witch hunt has started.....I think whoever uploaded this should be trailed for slander of the brave Echo C/S's who BIP's this thing risking their lifes.

HME??

BIP??

[Brihard]

AF guy: HME = home made explosives. Usually diesel fuel and ammonia nitrate fertilizer or something of the sort. Very potent. BIP is 'blow in place'. "He, we found a bomb. BIP it."



Yeah, this video's gone viral and is cropping up all over the place. Nice bit of propaganda by the Iranians if PressTV is the original source...

[Retired AF Guy]

AF guy: HME = home made explosives. Usually diesel fuel and ammonia nitrate fertilizer or something of the sort. Very potent. BIP is 'blow in place'. "He, we found a bomb. BIP it."

Thanks for the update.

[Scott]

http://www.davidicke.com/headlines/59927-canadian-soldiers-blowing-up-an-afghan-villagers-house-for-fun

Ummm, without any more background...

That's where I stopped.

[sappermcfly]

Maybe you just need to STFU.

From a questionable blog and a short video, you managed to tell that troops did something wrong and that the chain of command was not doing anything about it. Great job.

+ 1

[ObedientiaZelum]

Witch Hunt is right.

Youtube is now being scoured by people looking for videos they can take out of context and repost shouting 'OMG look at this! Nato out of afghanistan! repost if you agree'

I saw a man blow himself up on purpose and the only person he hurt was himself. No one cared, big fail.
It was one of the funniest things I've ever seen and we laughed about it for 2 weeks.

Unless someone has been exposed to the high stress life or death situations soldiers are exposed to and develop the same sense of humor that soldiers, police officers, paramedics, fire fighters, jail guards etc.  do then they need to stop seeing a laughing soldier and automatically assume they approve of peeing on POWs doing the human caterpillars and throwing puppies off cliffs.

Kalatzi why the hell were you on that garbage website anyways? You couldn't at least post a video directly from youtube?

[Jim Seggie]

I'm a soldier AND a jail guard correctional officer. I get double the black humour most people do.

For instance - an inmate with a glass eye we joke  "I'm keeping an eye out for him..."

[Retired AF Guy]

We don't know who originally took the video, but its a good chanced it was a Canadian soldier, who may have sent it friends. However, someone else got hold of it, and reposted it with the express purpose of defaming Canadian soldiers. A good illustration of the pratfalls of taking videos while in theatre and not being careful who you send them to.

[ObedientiaZelum]

I'm a soldier AND a jail guard correctional officer.

Apologies, my father was a corrections officer. He always refered to it as jail guard. No disrespect intended.

[Jim Seggie]

Apologies, my father was a corrections officer. He always refered to it as jail guard. No disrespect intended.

Not a problem. No issues here. As an aside, the guy lost his eye because a Somali criminal stabbed him in the eye area several times. The video showed it all.

[Kalatzi]

To those who suggest I should STFU.

In some cases yes. This one? NO.

I didn't realize how bad the original site was.

Thought that by giving the benefit of teh doubt that that a better explanation would emerge.

Taken aback that Dogger1936 seeems to be censured for this.

I think that there may be a lot of people that have similar footage for personal use.

Common sense, as well I imagine as well as formal direction dictates that it not get onto the net. By that I mean anything questionable.

I did some checking on youtube after the fact there must be a coule of hundred videos, and this is the one that had teh potential to cause problems.

Soooo, what percentage of slip-ups do we allow?  How about none.

For those of you who still feel I should STFU.

Thank you for your opinions. I am honoured by them.

[Scott]

Dogger was not "censored" at all. And it has nothing to do with this, so just let that one slide and leave the moderation to us. I think you ought to be a little more careful as to what sites you link through here and your wording when it comes to thread titles.

Anyone sharing any digital media in this day of age should be slapped with the hand of stupid.

[CDN Aviator]

By that I mean anything questionable.

I am still looking for the "questionable" par tof the video you posted about..........

and this is the one that had teh potential to cause problems.

No, it does not.

For those of you who still feel I should STFU.

That is me. I standby my opinion and now would be a perfect time for you to start.

[dapaterson]

Anyone sharing any digital media in this day of age should be slapped with the hand of stupid.

But there's the challenge.  How can the CF effectively communicate with the public what it's accomplishing without using digital media?

The best recruiting tools aren't sappy movies made by DND, but rather people reaching out and talking with their families and friends.

Ther's a need for balance, common sense and security, but any blanket prohibition would be counter-productive.

[Scott]

But there's the challenge.  How can the CF effectively communicate with the public what it's accomplishing without using digital media?

The best recruiting tools aren't sappy movies made by DND, but rather people reaching out and talking with their families and friends.

Ther's a need for balance, common sense and security, but any blanket prohibition would be counter-productive.

I don't disagree. And it's likely, as has been suggested, that folks are just mining what they can out of the context of a video in order o gain ground towards their end. But that doesn't excuse being careful, IMO.

I'll agree with your last and clarify that I have little issue with people chronicling their experiences. What I do take issue with is ordinary folks out there trying to, so it appears, jump on a bandwagon and say, "Lookie here!!!!"

[Jammer]

If I may put something into perspective. Because this is an open forum where anyone...from around the world may post any nugget of information they find to try and get a rise from some of you.

 Please be mindful of the fact that whatever you write to correct a percieved wrong is being watched by folks who are a little less than friendly to the western world. We don't need help them out.

What we do and how we do it should be left to face to face conversations.

[Jim Seggie]

The best PR type is a well spoken corporal who knows what he/she is talking about, is photgenic and can express themselves with out using the F Bomb every second sentence.
They are far more beleivable and more "in touch' with the average Canadian than the politicians.

My 

[Kalatzi]

CDN Aviator

What makes it questionable is that the person posting the video on youtube was able to set the reference

If they weren't able to get their hands on it no problem.

I'm just pleased that this has managed to remain a very small molehill.

"Never pass a fault"

Out

[ObedientiaZelum]

I am still looking for the "questionable" par tof the vodeo you posted about..........

I don't see it either. Nothing questionable there.

[CDN Aviator]

If they weren't able to get their hands on it no problem.

They can also twist around video made by news reporters...they can do it with video posted by official PA sources. There was nothing questionable in the video we are talking about, plain and simple. That someone used it for their own agenda doesn't make the originator of the video wrong.

If someone filmed me at work right now and posted it on Youtube, it could be used by someone else to say that the CF supports Coke and not Pepsi........we don't control that and it doesnt make the video questionable.

I'm just pleased that this has managed to remain a very small molehill.

So far, you are the only one making it into anything.

"Never pass a fault"

There was no fault to pass.

[recceguy]

To those who suggest I should STFU.

In some cases yes. This one? NO.

I didn't realize how bad the original site was.

Thought that by giving the benefit of teh doubt that that a better explanation would emerge.

Taken aback that Dogger1936 seeems to be censured for this.

I think that there may be a lot of people that have similar footage for personal use.

Common sense, as well I imagine as well as formal direction dictates that it not get onto the net. By that I mean anything questionable.

I did some checking on youtube after the fact there must be a coule of hundred videos, and this is the one that had teh potential to cause problems.

Soooo, what percentage of slip-ups do we allow?  How about none.

For those of you who still feel I should STFU.

Thank you for your opinions. I am honoured by them.

 

[HavokFour]

Find the original video that this was ripped from on LiveLeak and I bet you my right leg it will have a completely different title and explanation of what is going on.

[Good2Golf]

Temporary lock for cooling off.   Note also the mod edit to thread title to ensure clarity of topic.

For input desired from members prior to unlock, PM a Mod on duty and/or use "Report to Mod" to indicate material to be presented.

Milnet.ca Staff

[MCG]

Here is the latest update:  http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/SOMNIA/article2312457/

The video shows Cbt Engr destroying an enemy ammo cache.  In other words, it was a legitimate target and its destruction contributed to greater local safety.

[Good2Golf]

Unlocked.  Points of discussion related to the situation specifics, please.

[daftandbarmy]

I have a purely practical interest in the lovely, big, shiny explosion. 

For those who know more about this than me (lots), how much and what type of explosive would be used in this type of firework? My best guesstimate would be about the equivalent of 5 lbs of PE?

I'm also guessing that the only line of sight view in the crowd was the camera, with everyone else being safely 'turrets down'.

[dogger1936]

"Lt.-Col. Lemay said he “cannot justify” the laughter, but speculated it could be laughing at a successful demolition, or nervous laughter."

Maybe I can.

When you spend 8 months searchin out Taliban (EN of the Islamic state) who coward and hide in the civilian populis; this is a victory. Taliban owned this building which served as a cache to make IED's that maime and kill not only NATO forces but many times innocent bystanders who are driving their tractors to their field.

We do whats right over there. And while I won't go into details we have continually put the LN's safety well above our own at all cost. Hence our very very very minute civilian CAS.

I justify the laugther as these men just saved many Canadian soldiers, and many LN lifes.

[Good2Golf]

This, or any other structure in a similar situation, ceased being a "house" when it was used by insurgent forces to cache weapons and explosives.  In that regard, it was the Taliban who in fact robbed the rightful owners of their home; transforming the structure into a storage area for illegal weapons that was, for safety's sake, best resolved through destruction in place.

I agree with dogger1936 that the source of soldiers' laughter is in no way connected to a disregard or lack of respect for the family that the Taliban displaced, but rather from the excitement of proximity to such a large detonation.  How many folks who have been nearby the receiving end of a burst of GAU-8 30mm fire from an A-10 not had some kind of emotion linked to wonderment or excitement?


Regards
G2G

[dogger1936]

Not to mention enemy explosives found this way is slightly "more amusing" than finding it going off in under you along RRS/ riverbed or various other travel routes.

And yes some of us find anything exploding to be a "job perk".

Io believe we have shown the LN's nothing but respect for their land; albeit sometimes a wall has to o or this building....but it's never for fun.

[ArmyVern]

I have a purely practical interest in the lovely, big, shiny explosion. 

For those who know more about this than me (lots), how much and what type of explosive would be used in this type of firework? My best guesstimate would be about the equivalent of 5 lbs of PE?

I'm also guessing that the only line of sight view in the crowd was the camera, with everyone else being safely 'turrets down'.

Turrets down or distanced at a safe radius. Camera could be zoomed right in. The SMEs at this stuff are also very good at calculating radius required. If you listen to the video's beginning again, you can hear one of the troops ask if the task OPI whether he "is going to give us a countdown."



I don't see anything wrong with the laughter in the video either; these troops knew this controlled det was going to be huge --- it was them who charged it up to blow. I'd be happy to see the crap go too; that crap was a weapons cache intended to be used against us, our allies, civilian populace. The area was cleared of people and they knew no pers were at risk of harm during the det, just happy to see it go sky high safely.

I suspect the Taliban had the exact opposite reaction and cursed out loud when this went as they'd have been more happy to see it going boom while killing us, our allies, civilians. Funny that.

[MJP]

I'm also guessing that the only line of sight view in the crowd was the camera, with everyone else being safely 'turrets down'.

Right, Yes  of course everyone was safely "turrets down -nod head in agreement slowly as furtive looks go around the room"

[sappermcfly]

I have never witnessed a blast ever, that did not have the same oohhhs ahhhss , laughing and expletives. It is almost like it is part of the drill, as it is something to see, regardless of how many times you have done it.
The more seasoned guys may not get as excited, but inside they are!

Completely normal reaction, and maybe that Col ought to go to a range one day. Sure he will have the exact same reaction.

[Kat Stevens]

I'm part of the range clearance crew on the Mattawa in Pet, and at 50 I'm one of the youngest guys there.  We've seen a crapload of things go bang over the years between us.  We still giggle like schoolgirls on a successful demo day, or when a 4.5" HE high orders.  We enjoy it when things go bang in a controlled manner, nothing wrong with that.

[daftandbarmy]

This, or any other structure in a similar situation, ceased being a "house" when it was used by insurgent forces to cache weapons and explosives.  In that regard, it was the Taliban who in fact robbed the rightful owners of their home; transforming the structure into a storage area for illegal weapons that was, for safety's sake, best resolved through destruction in place.

I agree with dogger1936 that the source of soldiers' laughter is in no way connected to a disregard or lack of respect for the family that the Taliban displaced, but rather from the excitement of proximity to such a large detonation.  How many folks who have been nearby the receiving end of a burst of GAU-8 30mm fire from an A-10 not had some kind of emotion linked to wonderment or excitement excrement?


Regards
G2G

Fixed that for you 

[Macey]

How many folks who have been nearby the receiving end of a burst of GAU-8 30mm fire from an A-10 not had some kind of emotion linked to wonderment or excitement?

Is it wrong for me to say I had a "hard on"? May be I need to talk to my quack doctor more often.

[SupersonicMax]

There is absolutely nothing wrong with the video itself, however publishing that video on YouTube (or not keeping it for you personal collection) is a very bad judgement call, IMO.  General Joe Public doesn't always understand all the aspect of a task and what is behind the end result, and can see a very different thing than what is really happening in the video. 

Bottom line:  If you film/take picture of something with CF personnel or equipment in it, don't release it unless approved by the CoC.  Keep it for yourself.

[Sythen]

There is absolutely nothing wrong with the video itself, however publishing that video on YouTube (or not keeping it for you personal collection) is a very bad judgement call, IMO.  General Joe Public doesn't always understand all the aspect of a task and what is behind the end result, and can see a very different thing than what is really happening in the video. 

Bottom line:  If you film/take picture of something with CF personnel or equipment in it, don't release it unless approved by the CoC.  Keep it for yourself.

So bringing videos like this, which have nothing really negative in them, to the light which in turn forces an otherwise ignorant media or populace to hear the reality of it and learn those things they don't understand is a bad thing?

[Brihard]

So bringing videos like this, which have nothing really negative in them, to the light which in turn forces an otherwise ignorant media or populace to hear the reality of it and learn those things they don't understand is a bad thing?

Essentially, yes. 'Killing people and breaking things' is something the Americans do; we're there to rebuild a destroyed society into something that might someday reach an approximation of 'peaceful.  We've created an imperialistic artificiality where the peaceable possession of hundreds of pounds of ammonia nitrate and diesel fuel fertilizer explosive - which has been a cultural norm since practically Alexander the Great - is suddenly 'wrong' because we say so.  The Afghans have been getting along just fine with such ordnance since well before we were there, and it's only trying to subject them to our own relativistic moral values that suddenly makes 'inappropriate' things that they are simply their way of life.

A man's home is his castle; castles are normally of some historical significance, and so it's grossly wrong for us to be BIPing historical architectural wonders. Isn't that exactly what we condemned the Taliban for at Bamiyan with the Buddha statues?

[Good2Golf]

...A man's home is his castle; castles are normally of some historical significance, and so it's grossly wrong for us to be BIPing historical architectural wonders...

[Macey]

Troll?

[Brihard]

Troll?

Oh, you'd better believe it. When Sythen and I met and subsequently discovered each other was on here and under what handle, the subject of some of my posts coming across as a bit lefty came up. I figured there was some room for humour here if I walked a thin enough line..

[Macey]

It's cool by me.. free forum.

[cupper]

How many folks who have been nearby the receiving end of a burst of GAU-8 30mm fire from an A-10 not had some kind of emotion linked to wonderment or excitement?

Unfortunately I can think of one group on the receiving end who weren't all in awe, but that's an entirely different, sad, story.

[Sythen]

the subject of some of my posts coming across as a bit lefty came up.

I believe I called you a dirty communist *******

[Brihard]

I believe I called you a dirty communist *******

Something to that effect. 

[muskrat89]

This one has run its course, apparently