Topic: Accepting that you can't be a soldier

[Loachman]

practice my historical fencing with the club I'm starting,

www.SCA.org - there are probably quite a few people in your area doing this already.

As for the rest of your post, it looks pretty solid.

[PrairieBoy]

Re: Society for Creative Anachronisms: While the SCA people have a lot of fun, I'm more interested in historical European fencing in it's real practice and application as a martial art. The SCA people, in my personal experience, tend to focus on the "Creative" part of their title. There's nothing wrong with that, they have lots of fun doing what they do, but it's not really what I'm looking for. The club I'm involved with is more similar to these people: http://www.thearma.org/ Though we aren't officially associated with ARMA, our goals, emphasis and method are similar in principle to theirs. If anyone reading this is interested in historical European martial arts, I recommend checking out some ARMA materials. They've done a lot in this field.

[Loachman]

You will find quite a few SCA people who take their history pretty seriously, and many are in other groups as well. You may pick up a few members too. It doesn't hurt to check.

[PrairieBoy]

Definitely worth looking into. I'll see what I can do.

On a side note, regarding the AR-style rifle idea: How similar would one of those rifles be to a C7A2? If my financial situation changes, having a rifle to keep practicing the stuff I was taught at BMQ might be helpful. And familiarity with that style of rifle couldn't hurt.

[Redeye]

Definitely worth looking into. I'll see what I can do.

On a side note, regarding the AR-style rifle idea: How similar would one of those rifles be to a C7A2? If my financial situation changes, having a rifle to keep practicing the stuff I was taught at BMQ might be helpful. And familiarity with that style of rifle couldn't hurt.

Pretty similar. But it sounds like the actual drills (which are inherently simple) aren't the problem, it's a confidence issue, which you'll have to address more generally, because if the stress of a weapons test got you, then the challenges you will face on your trade courses would be much, much worse problems.

Work on it all, and when you're ready, reapply and see what happens. Disregard what that MCpl told you, it sounds like he was taking out unrelated frustrations on you.

[Spectrum]

I am going to give you my honest opinion whether you want it or not. It's not the weapons handling, it's a confidence and anxiety problem. When I did my BMQ, I had issues like that with weapons handling etc. I was so worried about "messing up" that my worrying would detract from the actual drills. Fortunately, I had better MCpl's that were able to explain that to me. I moved on and passed the test the first time, and went onto other weapons on other courses.

Looking back, it was not so much an experience issue as a confidence issue. Most people on basic have never used a C7 or anything like it before. Most people on SQ etc have never seen a grenade or a machine gun. The military has a history of teaching people (many of them probably not half as bright as you) to handle weapons. The drills are all broken down, taught and re-taught. A lack of confidence and a high level of anxiety can undermine the efforts to train you though, so definitely work on that. Learn to relax etc. I know it probably sucks reading that, but I have had to learn to overcome similar issues. 

I wouldn't bother buying an AR 15 or something like that, unless you TRULY want one. Don't do it just because you think it will make you pass a course. In many positions in the CF, you hardly ever see a C7. Think about it, if you were an Inf O posted into some staff position, how often do you think you get to conduct weapons handling? Pretty much every range I have been on kicks off with a review of C7 (or whatever weapon) TOETs. This is regardless of whether you are excellent at your drills or absolute junk. But hey, if you really want to spend your money and enjoy shooting, go for it. Just remember that being able to do a drill at home with your own weapon is useless if you can't show up to work and execute it properly in front of a MCpl. Weapons handling is important, don't get me wrong. But in your career, you are going to mess up. Everyone does at some point. I have...in way bigger ways than failing a C7 handling test at basic, trust me on that. You have to be willing to mess up some times in order to learn and succeed.

I would take some time to consider what you want to do in life, and work on any personal issues you can. There is no reason to give up. You are not the first to have a setback in your career, and you won't be the last. If you really want to be an Officer in the CF, I am sure you can do it. I am sorry that it doesn't seem like you had the best backing from the CoC, but it is what it is. Maybe if in a few years time you re-join and go RegF, I will be your MCpl teaching you at basic. I wouldn't mind staying late or coming in at night to help someone, and I am sure there are more than a few instructors like that out there. You just have to bring the confidence and attitude, and I am sure you can do it dude.

Good luck.

(and Redeye has beat me to it)

[dannyboy41]

Perhaps I am wrong in this response, for I am not in the Canadian Forces yet:

Could he have been yelling at you because he cared? If one makes a mistake and nobody yells, it may be because they do not care. You say you performed valiantly in every test but weapons handling; that demonstrates that you do have, at least, some potential.

Open to critique.

-Dan

[milnews.ca]

Could he have been yelling at you because he cared? If one makes a mistake and nobody yells, it may be because they do not care. You say you performed valiantly in every test but weapons handling; that demonstrates that you do have, at least, some potential.

Sure, and a parent who calls his/her child a bag of s**t and treats them like dirt without dignity or explanation is probably just showing a different kind of love?

Only based on what's here, if the MCPL wanted to communicate, "you can do this if you want", he could have just said that.

[PrairieBoy]

Perhaps I am wrong in this response, for I am not in the Canadian Forces yet:

Could he have been yelling at you because he cared? If one makes a mistake and nobody yells, it may be because they do not care. You say you performed valiantly in every test but weapons handling; that demonstrates that you do have, at least, some potential.

Open to critique.

-Dan

Well Dan, here's what I noticed, and you might notice this too: (though I hope your training goes great and you don't have to  )

During the actual training portions of my BMQ, it was as you expected. Yeah, we got jacked up when we made stupid mistakes, just like you'd expect. They were hard on us, but fair, just like training should be. Some days I hated them, but they were usually giving us crap for when we did something stupid or made a stupid mistake. After my training failure and after it had been decided that I was going home, all that stuff from the staff stopped for me. My course officer, all my course staff (the ones I interacted with anyways), they were all thoroughly professional and polite. The yelling and stuff ended because I was a training failure and giving me any further crap wouldn't be a constructive use of their time.

The only one who did give me crap was the Master Corporal who was probably just taking his frustration over his job out on me. From what I observed of him over the course, he was always shouting at and putting down the two Corporals who were working with him, as well as just about everyone else beneath his rank who annoyed him, which seemed to be just about everyone.

Before I left, my course officer suggested that I talk to the Chaplain about my training failure. I did, and he was very helpful and cool (like Chaplains are), and I mentioned the Master Corporal's behavior to him. He said he'd talk to some people about it, and I hope that the issue is sorted out so no other training failures or VRs have to go through that behavior. It really is unnecessary.

[CDN Aviator]

Dear lord......move on already.

[Jim Seggie]

Dear lord......move on already.

I second the motion Mr PMC

[Pte Cherry]

maybe he didn't like you, maybe he didn't like his job, Maybe he is just an ***
get over it already

[PrairieBoy]

I won't share the circumstances that led me to do this, but I went and got tested by a psychiatrist. I have been diagnosed with Asperger's Syndrome... This is why I am completely unsuitable for military service. I'm glad I was released, having someone with a disability in the Forces would just be a danger for myself and others. I'm glad I know this now, now I can really accept that military service is most definitely not an option.

[F3m5h3p]

What's so bad with the Asperger Sydrom? Maybe you could classifiy things and calculate other things better than anybody who's better at shooting than you...IDK.

It's hard to bury a dream. I know it is. There's alternatives. Study hard, become geniously ''different'' (as asperger syndrom is not usual) but capable. Look at RCMP requiremets or CSIS, or for engineer officer jobs in the CF.

Never quit what makes you feel alive. Be patient.

ALSO : I'm no specialist and it's only my 2 cents. Sorry if I my good intentions are giving bad results (corrected).

[CDN Aviator]

IDK.

That is why the CF is not asking you. The CF asked people that know and told the OP "no".

or for engineer officer jobs in the CF.

If the person has been told that they are completely unsuitable for military service, they cannot be an engineer officer in the Cf as that would be, well, military service.

Never quit what makes you feel alive. Be patient.

Lots of parents have said to their kids "you can be anything you want as long as you put your mind to it". Sounds great but it doesn;t pass the reality test.

[F3m5h3p]

"you can be anything you want as long as you put your mind to it". Sounds great but it doesn;t pass the reality test.

Disney has died long time ago, understood. Thanks to ''the guy who's correct'' for remembering me.   

[Jimmy_D]

I won't share the circumstances that led me to do this, but I went and got tested by a psychiatrist. I have been diagnosed with Asperger's Syndrome... This is why I am completely unsuitable for military service. I'm glad I was released, having someone with a disability in the Forces would just be a danger for myself and others. I'm glad I know this now, now I can really accept that military service is most definitely not an option.

Your best bet would be to find a Provincial Career Counsellor, and be honest with them in what you are looking for in a career, also be honest with them with your limitations. Remember that everyones medical info my be private, but if you are willing to share some of that info with people who are trained in helping people pick careers then they may have some incentive for you to try and achieve.

Also just because you have a condition, may or may not mean that it actually limits your abilities in life; but with some conditions not every employer will want to take the risk of possibly making the condition worse or unsafe.

[Spectrum]

I would assert that there are already people serving with asperger's/some other form of high functioning autism. I can think of one for sure who lines up with the symptoms almost 100%.  Not really sure how they got in, but voila...

[Jimmy_D]

If its noticed while a member is fully trained they may find a way to accomidate them. If the member is untrained / out of the CF then the outcome is usually release / turned down.

[medicineman]

I would assert that there are already people serving with asperger's/some other form of high functioning autism. I can think of one for sure who lines up with the symptoms almost 100%.  Not really sure how they got in, but voila...

About 100% of us on these boards also have traits for personality disorders - doesn't mean we have a PD, just the traits.

As far as people getting in with it (and some do get in because they were never diagnosed with it or have learned to control it), unless the person is dragged up on the carpet for conduct issues related to that and gets a formal assessment by a shrink, chances are they're going to slip through.  If you were to read the DSM-IV TR and look at yourself, you could easily (and incorrectly in all likelihood) diagnose yourself with a gazillion things...most illnesses in the world have common symptoms, the trick is sorting out the extraneous chaff from the wheat.  It's kind of what happens with medical students when they start reading their text books too much...

Not saying the people you're thinking of don't have Asperger's, however, I know lots of people that could fit that bill too, but don't have it.

MM

[Loachman]

If you were to read the DSM-IV TR and look at yourself, you could easily (and incorrectly in all likelihood) diagnose yourself with a gazillion things...

I've done that, and I am one sick *******.

But still the most normal person that I know.

[Journeyman]

.... I am one sick *******.

Quite likely, depending on how you mean that. 

But still the most normal person that I know.

"Normal" is the setting on a washing machine. Who wants that?

[rmc_wannabe]

But still the most normal person that I know.

Most insane people think they are the sane ones and everyone else is crazy .

IRT the OP, Whether you think you can or you think you can't, you're right.

I'm not speaking specifically to military service I am talking about life. Too often we see people in this society who fail at something and are looking for an excuse. This usually results in a convenient diagnosis that may or may not be 100% accurate.

I was diagnosed with dyslexia as a child. My teachers wanted to provide me with accommodations, but thank goodness my father knew better: "This just means you have to work twice as hard, let's get to work." After years of working hard at my studies and moreso overcoming the label, I only have it affect me when I am either hammered or extremely tired.

FWIW, If you're not up to snuff for the CF; work hard, find your skill sets, and master them so you can become a productive & contributing member of society. If that is pumping gas or curing cancer, your contributions are integral for this country to function.

Honestly, just move on, keep your chin up, and give whatever comes your way your best shot (pun not intended).

[I, Citizen]

OP, I appreciate your candour and I am sure that many other people who have had similar experiences do as well. Realizing that you aren't all that you thought you were cracked up to be is a pretty painful moment. My own experience differs in many regards, which I will relate below, but for those out there who left the P.Res and years later want to go Reg.F. I hope you can draw some valuable lessons from it.

As my username indicates, I was once a very proud member of the Queen's Own Rifles. I applied while I was 16 and forged all of the parental signatures on the application forms. I was sworn in Oct. 20 -2004 and began my BMQ a few weeks after that. I had turned 17 in the meantime and felt pretty sure that I was the toughest crap around. Hindsight being what it is, I was nothing more than a child who wanted to play at JTF-Ninja-Club on the weekends without any concept of the obligations and responsibilities I had agreed to. I mistakenly saw the CF as an easy way to escape from an abusive home.

Friday night of the first day on course I saw real soldiers for the first time. Our CSM was a war horse from the 48'th Highlanders named MacIntyre (sp?) and to this day ranks as the toughest person I have ever been in the same room as. I am sure that he saw right through me. I am sure that all of the course staff saw right through me. I was a kid trying to play an adult's game. Nonetheless, I persevered and did complete my BMQ. Of course I made every mistake someone can possibly make and was probably the butt of most of the staff's jokes when no one could hear.

Examples of my myriad failures include severely spraining my ankle and refusing medical treatment because I didn't want to appear as 'weak'. Contracting Mono during the latter half of the course and being hallucinatory during training from the effects of the virus. My performance suffered as you can imagine and I brought much wrath upon my own head. Also foolishly trying to bullshit the staff (I have since learned that this is impossible but it goes to show my naivete). Or just the general lack of maturity needed to process honest advice from the staff.

To compound the above factors, I was also the primary witness to an 'assault with a weapon' that had taken place between my parents. My decision to testify meant that I was no longer welcome at home and became homeless for stretches of time. Luckily I had my course and parade pay so I could survive off of deli food and subs during the week. Unfortunately that meant that on Sunday nights when everyone else was going home, I was sleeping in some bushes behind my high school and showering in the bathroom sinks the next morning. This situation couldn't go on forever and I ended up releasing in the fall of '05.

At the time, I felt devastated that I had somehow failed my country. Years later I had the perspective to see that the processes designed to weed out the weak and unfit had worked exactly as intended. All the bitterness I felt has long since been replaced with admiration for the staff's professionalism. I went on to do a year of university. Then I managed some retail outlets while I got my personal life in order. Finally, 7 years later I have a great wife, great marks in school and am planning on rejoining as a NCM-SEP. I have come to understand that a relationship is about both parties bringing 100% to the table. Now that I have sorted myself out, I feel confident that I have the tools to succeed.

Many of you reading this have already conquered many of the hurdles that life has thrown in your way. For those of you who have failed or fallen short, I hope that my experiences help put your own into perspective for you. Regardless of how shitty your life is, you can improve it bit by bit if you are patient and get up each time you fall.

My brother went down a similar road and I don't have all the details because we stopped talking years ago, but, here is a condensed version of his struggles:
He joined as a medic in the summer of '03. When I released he decided to go Reg.F. and joined PPCLI. He did a tour in Afghanistan. On leave he 'mutinied' or whatever the term is for someone who refuses to return to theatre. He spent the rest of his contract counting socks with some civilians in the Logistics part of Shilo. He suffered from really severe PTSD and depression over letting all of his friends down. He got help through the CF. He went back to school and got his GED and even received an award from the L.Gov. of Manitoba for scoring so high on it. He has since graduated from college and has a good job. He is expecting a second child soon. He has put his life back together.

Good luck on your own journey.

[F3m5h3p]

OP, I appreciate your candour and I am sure that many other people who have had similar experiences do as well. Realizing that you aren't all that you thought you were cracked up to be is a pretty painful moment. My own experience differs in many regards, which I will relate below, but for those out there who left the P.Res and years later want to go Reg.F. I hope you can draw some valuable lessons from it.

[...]

Many of you reading this have already conquered many of the hurdles that life has thrown in your way. For those of you who have failed or fallen short, I hope that my experiences help put your own into perspective for you. Regardless of how shitty your life is, you can improve it bit by bit if you are patient and get up each time you fall.

[...]

Good luck on your own journey.

Thanks for sharin'