Topic: PRES VS RCN PRL

[chief_of_da_fence]

Where do you find the SOPs for filling a b class position , specifically if a member of the P Ress  and a member of Marcom / RCN PRL is putting in for a B class position where is the SOP list of hierarchy for employment.

I have found this

CF MIL PERS INSTR 20/04
4.5 Notification of Cl “B” Reserve Service Opportunities
1.   The intent of any notification of Cl "B" Reserve Service opportunities is to demonstrate an open, fair and equitable Reserve Service process accessible to the widest appropriate range of current Res F personnel. Should the requirement not be met by a current Res F member, the opportunity may be made available to members of the Reg F who are contemplating a component transfer, at the discretion of the employing authority and with the concurrence of the approving authority. Reg F members will be required to undergo a component transfer to the appropriate Res F sub-component should they be selected;


Thank you.

[MrBlue]

With what org is the position?

I can tell you from personal experience, as well as many sailor friends' experiences, if it is an RCNR position, the RCNR hates giving spots to non-sailors, but on the flip side they also hate letting sailors work in non RCNR positions.

Like I said though the SOPs could differ slightly depending where/for whom you'd be working.  1st place I would try is Ship's Office, and/or Chief clerk.

[Chief Stoker]

That's a good one. I have heard of annuitants putting in for Class B positions and having it grieved by a PRES person. Its unofficial policy that a position will be filled with a PRES person over a PRL if the person is qualified, not sure in practice though.
What job are you putting in for?

[ModlrMike]

Just to be clear, PRes and PRL are essentially the same.

[Chief Stoker]

Just to be clear, PRes and PRL are essentially the same.

Anyone who is not on the establishment of an NRD is PRL -- unless they are on Class B/C in which case they come over to PRes for the duration of the employment. They can be promoted (and are merit listed in the Maritime Command PRL) but need to have a position to be promoted into - and that does not happen very often.

[dapaterson]

A PRL is a Primary Reserve List - a means to hold Primary Reserve personnel who are not part of a unit (CFAO 2-8 provides some info).

Members of a PRL must be members of the P Res.

[RLD]

Where do you find the SOPs for filling a b class position , specifically if a member of the P Ress  and a member of Marcom / RCN PRL is putting in for a B class position where is the SOP list of hierarchy for employment.

I have found this

CF MIL PERS INSTR 20/04
4.5 Notification of Cl “B” Reserve Service Opportunities
1.   The intent of any notification of Cl "B" Reserve Service opportunities is to demonstrate an open, fair and equitable Reserve Service process accessible to the widest appropriate range of current Res F personnel. Should the requirement not be met by a current Res F member, the opportunity may be made available to members of the Reg F who are contemplating a component transfer, at the discretion of the employing authority and with the concurrence of the approving authority. Reg F members will be required to undergo a component transfer to the appropriate Res F sub-component should they be selected;

Thank you.

I think you may be mixing up some terms (PRes, PRL, Supp List) and situations (CT to a Res Force position) here. Full def'n of the terms can be found in CFAO 2-8 ( http://www.admfincs-smafinsm.forces.gc.ca/cfa-oaf/002-08-eng.asp ). The short version:

Primary Reserve (PRes): members who have undertaken to perform, whether on active service or not, such duty and training as may be required of them. This normally includes parading at the Reserve Unit/Division when not on class B/C service.

Primary Reserve List (PRL): PRL is a part of the PRes but consists of members who are not required to parade at an Reserve Unit/Division but are maintained on the PRL to take advantage of skills or experience they have obtained. They usually have some availability and do perform some military duties/training but either are unable to attend or not advantageously employed at a unit/division.

Supplementary Reserve List (Supp List): members of the Reserve Force who are not required to perform duty or training except when placed on active service.

PRL personnel can apply for and be selected for Class B/C positions the same as other members of the PRes.

Supp List personnel must be transferred to the PRes (unless authorized by the Asst CMP for exceptional circumstances) before they can serve in class A, B or C positions (CMP Instr 20/04). Generally members of the PRes have preference for selection over Supp List pers however at the end of the day the needs of the service will be the determining factor, e.g. a position where the PRes person meets minimum qualifications for the position but the Supp List pers has specialized skills or experience that make them more suitable. So a routine Cpl/LS Clerk position should normally be filled by the PRes person but a case could be made for the Supp Res person for a specialized instructor for some new training if the Supp List person has a more suitable knowledge/skill set.

NAVRES policies used to be spelled out on the N11 section of their intranet website although I no longer have access so I can't say it is still there.

The situation you describe re the CMP 20/09 quote is not PRes vs PRL but PRes vs Reg F CT'ing to the PRes to take a Class B/C position. In this case a qualified PRes should certainly be given preference although once again the employer can always go back to the needs of the service argument although they would truly have to justify an exceptional case if it was grieved.

[fraserdw]

I am on the PRL.  I can remain on it as long as I am employed at the Reg For Formation I am with.  Once the employment is terminated I have to find a reserve unit that wants me or release.  The PRL is used to support skilled people with skills important to a formation but not available through Reg For positions or as supplemental to Reg For in times of war or emergency.

[chief_of_da_fence]

Well the story is that I had returned from a roto 2 on / in KAF, I had been working for recruiting at the NRD prior.  I had my name in for the recruiting NCO position.They needed up employing a retired Reg force sparker in the position , there was no competition  for the position. I met all the requirements. Here's the kicker . well not for me because he is a different trade.he has been merited  very very high  on the  PO1 Nav Com merit list not even in his trade. I feel sorry for the PO1 Nav Coms out on the MCDVS that will get bumped and he is not even a Nav Com.

[Chief Stoker]

Well the story is that I had returned from a roto 2 on / in KAF, I had been working for recruiting at the NRD prior.  I had my name in for the recruiting NCO position.They needed up employing a retired Reg force sparker in the position , there was no competition  for the position. I met all the requirements. Here's the kicker . well not for me because he is a different trade.he has been merited  very very high  on the  PO1 Nav Com merit list not even in his trade. I feel sorry for the PO1 Nav Coms out on the MCDVS that will get bumped and he is not even a Nav Com.

They are supposed to have a competition for the navres recruiting positions, in my experience quite a few annuitants are being employed as recruiter's. I take it when you applied your fitness, medical was up to date and you were employable?
It doesn't matter if he was a reg force sparker as the position calls for ATR. He shouldn't be merited for promotion as he is PRL he doesn't merit on the navcomms list for promotion.
Are you sure your name was in for that position, were you talking to your career manager about this?

[ModlrMike]

The fact that your had returned from a lengthy Class C situation may have something to do with it. Equitable, in the reference you cited, could be construed to mean fairly shared.

[chief_of_da_fence]

They are supposed to have a competition for the navres recruiting positions, in my experience quite a few annuitants are being employed as recruiter's. I take it when you applied your fitness, medical was up to date and you were employable?
It doesn't matter if he was a reg force sparker as the position calls for ATR. He shouldn't be merited for promotion as he is PRL he doesn't merit on the navcomms list for promotion.
Are you sure your name was in for that position, were you talking to your career manager about this?

Yes I am sure my name was in for the position, I had been on several exercises and had to up date my avrep every time and every time it was on my avrep. and I am not sure about discussing the merrit list standing but he made his score publicly known and it was high, and he said it was as a navcom.

[chief_of_da_fence]

The fact that your had returned from a lengthy Class C situation may have something to do with it. Equitable, in the reference you cited, could be construed to mean fairly shared.

The member was retired, it took them half a year to get him a uniform.

[RLD]

If the other guy was PRes (including PRL) at the time the position was advertised then he has every right to apply the same as any other PRes member who met the requirements regardless of a RegF background. If he was Supp Res or CT'd directly from the Reg F to this job then it would appear that policy was bent if not broken especially if there was no competition as you indicate. There might be cause for a grievence. If he wasn't PRes however, I don't see how he could have been merit listed in the NavRes.

[chief_of_da_fence]

If the other guy was PRes (including PRL) at the time the position was advertised then he has every right to apply the same as any other PRes member who met the requirements regardless of a RegF background. If he was Supp Res or CT'd directly from the Reg F to this job then it would appear that policy was bent if not broken especially if there was no competition as you indicate. There might be cause for a grievence. If he wasn't PRes however, I don't see how he could have been merit listed in the NavRes.

now, before he was Marcom PRL he was not pres, he does not have a nav res trade and he has no special skills. now that everybody is RCN it might be different , I don't know , can any one point me out to these rules. the rules regarding hierarchy of hiring  for employment .

P.S.  thank you for your comments people all information so far is appreciated

[ModlrMike]

he has no special skills.

That's a bit presumptuous of you.

[chief_of_da_fence]

That's a bit presumptuous of you.

After what I have been through, I will allow it, of course I meant in regards to the position, there are no special  tech skills required.

[Chief Stoker]

After what I have been through, I will allow it, of course I meant in regards to the position, there are no special  tech skills required.

I see your avrep is up to date. How about a position on a MCDV?

[chief_of_da_fence]

I see your avrep is up to date. How about a position on a MCDV?

I don't want to take any position away from the Pres pers who depend on those positions. they have trained long and hard and depend on those billets to pay for their condos. my home in not on the coast.

[howarda401]

Could anyone tell me the reference to the regulation which states that a PRL must be transferred to the primary reserve list for the duration of any class B contract.   I have been on Class B contract for a year now, and Navres is refusing to take me off of the PRL list.

[George Wallace]

Could anyone tell me the reference to the regulation which states that a PRL must be transferred to the primary reserve list for the duration of any class B contract.   I have been on Class B contract for a year now, and Navres is refusing to take me off of the PRL list.

Question:  Who is employing you on Class B?

Question:  What unit do/did you belong to?

You may be working on a Class B for an organization and on their PRL as opposed to being kept on strength at your "former" unit.

[dapaterson]

The PRL is a place to hold members of the Primary Reserve.  A member of a PRL can be employed on class B without having to be transferred to a unit.

Search for CF Mil Pers Instruction 20/04 - it's a foundational document on Reserve employment.  There's also A-PM-245 that details military HR procedures.

[chief_of_da_fence]

Now here is another tid bit. what if the person is not medically fit to do their trade due to a permanent med cat.  sure he can be employed in a  urban environment in the recruiting position. but can they promote him , given his high standing in nav com merit list, again he is not a nav com,

[MJP]

Now here is another tid bit. what if the person is not medically fit to do their trade due to a permanent med cat.  sure he can be employed in a  urban environment in the recruiting position. but can they promote him , given his hi standing in nav com merrit list, again he is not a nav com,

Sounds like you have an axe to grind (on top of the inability to spell or capitalize words properly).  Put in a redress if you feel like you should have won a competition and didn't.  The membership here has given some pretty good advice in this topic and if you search properly on putting in a redress.  I would suggest ending the personal airing dirty laundry attacks insinuations and do something.

[chief_of_da_fence]

Sounds like you have an axe to grind (on top of the inability to spell or capitalize words properly).  Put in a redress if you feel like you should have won a competition and didn't.  The membership here has given some pretty good advice in this topic and if you search properly on putting in a redress.  I would suggest ending the personal airing dirty laundry attacks insinuations and do something.

Thank you Sir for your constructive criticism, I have grieved it and was found to have been treated un fairly and with lack of transparency. Unfortunately , I have to correct some wrongs that happened in the two years it took administer the grievance. as for the merit listing , it does not effect me what so ever, I was of the opinion that a few PO1 nav coms might have a vested interest at what is going on. Keep in mind that the CDS in my grievance has stated that this situation has a lack of transparency. I am researching references , thank you. The sharpening of steel is a required skill of my trade.

[CDN Aviator]

The sharpening of steel is a required skill of my trade.

Your trade and everyone else's. Try not to feel too special.

[Scott]

Well I think you're now flinging crap. I also think you're patronizing the membership here with sarcasm laden "sir's" and whatnot.

Be very careful from here on out

Staff

[MJP]

Thank you Sir for your constructive criticism, I have grieved it and was found to have been treated un fairly and with lack of transparency.  Keep in mind that the CDS in my grievance has stated that this situation has a lack of transparency.

A tidbit you have left out all along that would help us help you.  Listen dude you came on asking a question and it got answered.  You went into partial explanation of the situation  and then you starting airing insinuations and dirty laundry.  There is a limit to what one should say on an open forum and you are quickly reaching it.  We help those that want help, but hate whiners and people who have a chip on their shoulders.

Tell ya what, how about you post the link to the grievance board decision here so we can know the full story rather than the bits and pieces you have placed here.  From there we can help you.  Or you can continue to make snide offhand patronization comments and airing dirty laundry and see how much help you get.  Your choice dude, it doesn't matter to most of us.


*Edited to fix bad copy paste job