Topic: EDUCATION

[WoutWarningWoutRemorse]

I am currently in the process of applying for infantry officer. I have done the CFAT and submitted all pertinent information. I am just waiting to get the physical as well as the interview portion done.  My main question once I am accepted (and if) what are my potion as far as continued education. I currently hold a Honours BA from the University of Toronto and have applied for political science Masters and am will be applying for law school in September. Say I get an offer of acceptance from the CF in May/June and then get accepted to do a Master's in Kingston at Queen's.  What will happen? Can i take time out of the CF to do my Master's without giving up my "spot".  Same goes for law school.

Thanks

[CDN Aviator]

What will happen?

You will have to pick one.

Your earlly military career will not leave you time for post-grad. You will be in training for your chosen trade.

[WoutWarningWoutRemorse]

what happens after I finish doing my basic training and officer leadership training, etc?

[Jim Seggie]

We send you on a super secret mission. Oops.....spilled the beans again didn't I?

[Pat in Halifax]

I'll take this one:

You GO TO WORK.

[WoutWarningWoutRemorse]

OK. I understand the going to work thing, however what is the process for/ what opportunities will I get to

A) continue scholastic eduction ie get a master's in poli sci, history , philosophy etc.

and or

B) go to law school and get admitted to the bar.

[MJP]

OK. I understand the going to work thing, however what is the process for/ what opportunities will I get to

A) continue scholastic eduction ie get a master's in poli sci, history , philosophy etc.

and or

B) go to law school and get admitted to the bar.

Short answer.  Every year there is a post-graduate educational competition/message that comes out.  If you wish to be picked then you apply and hope for the best. 

[Michael O'Leary]

WWWR, to put it bluntly, do not join the CF with the expectation that it will be your ticket to post-grad. The likelihood of getting such an opportunity is not high enough for anyone to make a life plan based on achieving it. DO NOT take away the fact that "it is possible" as meaning anything like "it is common" or that "it is available for the asking."

[GhostofJacK]

NCM querie here: Doesn't going to Staff College (IOT jump from Maj to LCol) grant you a masters or masters-equivalant?

It's been 4yrs since I remember hearing this. Please forgive if I am very wrong.

[CDN Aviator]

what happens after I finish doing my basic training and officer leadership training, etc?

Work.

We're not recruiting post-grad students.

You join as an infantry officer. After we train you as such, we're going to expect you to go and be one.

[WoutWarningWoutRemorse]

WWWR, to put it bluntly, do not join the CF with the expectation that it will be your ticket to post-grad. The likelihood of getting such an opportunity is not high enough for anyone to make a life plan based on achieving it. DO NOT take away the fact that "it is possible" as meaning anything like "it is common" or that "it is available for the asking."

I am not using the CF to "get into" school. I want to gain as much eduction as possible, masters, PHD and LLB. If I can do that with the forces great, if not I will do it on my own.  I have already applied for Masters and am confident I will get in. Also I have also applied for CF and confident I will get in.  Therefore, I anticipated there being a conflict of schedule, if not of interests. I was always under the implied impression that the CF fostered continuing education, what you seem to be saying is that this is not the case once you have gained/obtained the pinnacle of learning ie a lowly BA.

[jeffb]

There are two ways to look at this. If you are looking at going to a bricks and mortar school to get your masters, then understand that it is a competitive process to get in that program. Also, I can't imagine someone being let go early in their career to do this.

If, on the other hand, you are willing to do your masters online or at a local university, on your own time, while still meeting all your work commitments, then there is a program to get that funded. I am currently working on my MA using this route as is my boss and one of my friends. This program is much easier to get approved for but you have to be rather disciplined as your boss will not be impressed if you try and tell him that you don't want to go to the field because you have an essay to do.

Personally, I wouldn't even be thinking about starting a masters as a junior officer until out of phase training, done OPME's and done AJOSQ. (use search if you don't know what these are).  You simply will not have time to work on your Masters until these are done.

If getting a masters is really important to you in the next few years, you may want to consider deferring joining the CF until after you finish school.

[CDN Aviator]

I was always under the implied impression that the CF fostered continuing education,

YOU WILL NOT HAVE TIME FOR A CIVILIAN SCHOOL AT THE START OF YOUR CAREER AS AN INFANTRY OFFICER.

IF YOU GET ACCEPTED AT BOTH, YOU WILL HAVE TO PICK ONE.

[PMedMoe]

If getting a masters is really important to you in the next few years, you may want to consider deferring joining the CF until after you finish school.

Or the reverse; go to school and join the Reserves.

[jeffb]

Good point Moe and probably a much more realistic option given that the OP wants to say in school until they are in their mid 40's.

[SentryMAn]

What is the purpose of your education?  Do you want to be a Lawyer? Professor? teacher? career student?

It seems to me that you need to sit down and think hard about where you wish your schooling to take you.  Education without focus is pointless.

[WoutWarningWoutRemorse]

I want to get the best/most of life as I can, while serving my country and teaching /co-operating with others. I can join now as an Infantry Officer and or Intelligence officer.  If I start as a Infantry officer and then get a Master (put in 10 years as infantry) then become and Intelligence Officer (and hopefully get a Masters/PHD in the process), do that for ten years meanwhile getting a law degree and then become a legal officer (do that for 10 years).
I am 25 years old
plus 10 years Infantry officer
plus 10 years Intelligence officer
plus 10 years Legal Officer
=55years old and retire with 30 years service (sounds like a good/well rounded life)
PS. once retired teach and write books

[jeffb]

There is nothing wrong with upgrading your education. The main thing that I think you need to take out of this thread though, implied and stated outright by some people with some serious experience, is that you are going to have a very tough time doing not only a good job, but any job, as a new infantry officer while accomplishing your education goals. If your education goals require you to attend a bricks and mortar school then there is a VERY high chance this will be completely impossible.

Good for you for having a plan. Many people in the mid-twenties do not have a plan at all. It is hard to convey just how time consuming life in the combat arms is. (And in other trades I assume but don't have firsthand knowledge). Even if you remain single your whole life, don't have any kids and basically don't have any hobbies outside of work, work will consume vast amounts of time. How much? There WILL be period where you will be at work, 24 hours a day for weeks on end. Also, there will be periods where you are sent on a tasking for weeks or months at a time anywhere in Canada or, even the world, with a minimum of notice.

Being an Army officer is not a job. It is an all consuming lifestyle. If you are passionate and doing it for the right reasons you will love your job, if not...

[Pat in Halifax]

Honestly, good luck. I have 30 years in and have had 4 months avail (had to take LWOP back in 1987) to pick up 2 College courses for a diploma. I am taking an OPME through DL now and am struggling to find the time. This is a full time +++  job and yes, the CF supports continuing education, but that is not the priority of employing personnel.

As I tell young guys when I am 'counselling' them for something. There is a word on the shoulder of your uniform-That word implies that this is far more than a job.

[Bruce Monkhouse]

I want to get the best/most of life as I can, while serving my country and teaching /co-operating with others. I can join now as an Infantry Officer and or Intelligence officer.  If I start as a Infantry officer and then get a Master (put in 10 years as infantry) then become and Intelligence Officer (and hopefully get a Masters/PHD in the process), do that for ten years meanwhile getting a law degree and then become a legal officer (do that for 10 years).
I am 25 years old
plus 10 years Infantry officer
plus 10 years Intelligence officer
plus 10 years Legal Officer
=55years old and retire with 30 years service (sounds like a good/well rounded life)
PS. once retired teach and write books

Planning too far ahead is one simple way to make sure you get nothing out of life.........................just advice from an old[er] guy who never really planned more than the next good time.
...and what a sweet ride it's been,....you might want to worry about "the now" a little.

[Michael O'Leary]

I am not using the CF to "get into" school. I want to gain as much eduction as possible, masters, PHD and LLB. If I can do that with the forces great, if not I will do it on my own.  I have already applied for Masters and am confident I will get in. Also I have also applied for CF and confident I will get in.  Therefore, I anticipated there being a conflict of schedule, if not of interests. I was always under the implied impression that the CF fostered continuing education, what you seem to be saying is that this is not the case once you have gained/obtained the pinnacle of learning ie a lowly BA.

No-one here, including myself, is saying it's not possible. I have a very good friend who recently completed his PhD while serving. BUT, it is not a common achievement - and if it is a central goal to your life plan, you may not be increasing your chances of accomplishing it by joining the military.

You asked for opinions and advice, which you are free to ignore and bash on with your life plan however you desire. We can only offer views that might help you understand the environment you are planning to launch yourself into. Don't be surprised if the CF's expectations for you have some small effect on those plans over the next 30 years.

[WoutWarningWoutRemorse]

Planning too far ahead is one simple way to make sure you get nothing out of life.........................just advice from an old[er] guy who never really planned more than the next good time.
...and what a sweet ride it's been,....you might want to worry about "the now" a little.

I dont think that planning ahead (far or otherwise) and carpe diem(ing) is mutually exclusive.

[Scott]

Because you're 25.

So you might not like the advice you're getting...I suggest you give it weight anyway.

[ballz]

I want to get the best/most of life as I can, while serving my country and teaching /co-operating with others. I can join now as an Infantry Officer and or Intelligence officer.  If I start as a Infantry officer and then get a Master (put in 10 years as infantry) then become and Intelligence Officer (and hopefully get a Masters/PHD in the process), do that for ten years meanwhile getting a law degree and then become a legal officer (do that for 10 years).
I am 25 years old
plus 10 years Infantry officer
plus 10 years Intelligence officer
plus 10 years Legal Officer
=55years old and retire with 30 years service (sounds like a good/well rounded life)
PS. once retired teach and write books

Wow... and where does "at least 1 year" for a Master's, 2 more years for a PhD, and 3 years + about a year of on the job training for Law fit into that 30 years?

[Jim Seggie]

So we can't send him on a super secret mission?