Topic: EDUCATION

[Pieman]

I dont think that planning ahead (far or otherwise) and carpe diem(ing) is mutually exclusive.

Agreed. No plan has to be written in stone, and your ideas will change with time. Your goals/timeline are not very realistic at the moment, but you will figure that out.

I suspect you would be much happier looking into going into the reserves. The question boils down to your motivation for joining. If you are looking at it as something fun to do, pays you, and lets you continue your education then reserves is pretty good for that.

If you are looking at Reg force expecting to get education upgrades anytime soon, forget it. It is competitive within the Officer ranks for getting more education. You will not get much choice in anything you do. If you are not comfortable with that, then you are unlikely to be satisfied with the Reg F experience.

I found that they have a great way to wean out those people who are there just for personal gain. In training they make your life pretty miserable, and those who are not truly dedicated take a walk -- some take the walk quickly, others realize it after the fact.

I am well educated and I ended up serving as a NCM, something I really enjoyed since I got to roll in the mud and not have to sweat any organization or people problems. If I had to do it again, I think the reserves would have been better suited...but then I doubt I would have landed a tour in time which was what I was really after.

Anyway, my two cents there.

[WoutWarningWoutRemorse]

Wow... and where does "at least 1 year" for a Master's, 2 more years for a PhD, and 3 years + about a year of on the job training for Law fit into that 30 years?

read the post

10 years infantry officer, while getting a masters (I think I can finish a 1 year masters in 10)
10 years intelligence officer (while getting a LLB or JD) I think I can get a 2/3 year degree  in 10 years
10 years Law officer (once again 10 years is sufficient and potentially not necessary to get a PHD once I have three majors in undergrad, have hypothetically gotten a master and a LLB)

PS. should I also explain necessary and sufficient conditions to you? (sorry that was me being rude/funny)

[ballz]

read the post

10 years infantry officer, while getting a masters (I think I can finish a 1 year masters in 10)
10 years intelligence officer (while getting a LLB or JD) I think I can get a 2/3 year degree  in 10 years
10 years Law officer (once again 10 years is sufficient and potentially not necessary to get a PHD once I have three majors in undergrad, have hypothetically gotten a master and a LLB)

PS. should I also explain necessary and sufficient conditions to you? (sorry that was me being rude/funny)

I am quite capable of reading it, perhaps you're not capable of critical thinking / problem solving. Another honours student produced by our outstanding post-secondary institutions that probably can't tie his shoes.

In your 30 year career you want to spend at least 7 years of it in school as opposed to working? I suppose you want the full-time salary and the 14% for your pension while you're at it, too?

[Pieman]

^^ Your plan looks good on paper, but I don't think you should plan on it. There are some Officers who have finished their PhD while serving after being in for many many years.  So yes it can be done, but I just wonder what you are motivated to go that direction.
 
But what is your motivation? Are you going into the forces so you can get yourself educated? Or are you joining the Forces so you can become an Infantry Officer because that is what you really want to do? Or as one of my Sargent's put it, "It calls to you, doesn't it?"

I would not take the tone that people here don't understand your posts. They do.

[DanKnee]

I can't speak for the exact graduate program you are looking into but many have a maximum allowable time limit of 5-7 years with continual involvement required. Even for part time students. Check with the schools/programs you are considering.

[ttlbmg]

As I am reading, I just have a few questions. Why do you want to join the military? What are your goals within the military? You seem very sure of the path you want to take educationally speaking; however you don't seem to have any particular desires in terms of your military career, other than becoming an Int O. Do you want to make it to the rank of major? Do you have an interest in practicing law within the military? I know it might sound ignorant, but you don't seem to have the fire for the military or the infantry. I am just confused as to your motives to join the infantry. If your reasons are just to say that you were an infantry officer, I don't think you would get enjoyment out of it.

[cypres78]

Another honours student produced by our outstanding post-secondary institutions that probably can't tie his shoes.

Can tell you the square root of a pickle jar but can't open it. 

[PMedMoe]

What I'm getting is that the OP wants to joint as Inf O, do that for 10 years (or until getting his Masters), remuster to Int O, do that for 10 years (or until he gets LLB or JD) and then remuster to Legal Officer.

I can't see that happening myself, OTs aren't always easy, despite one having the qualifications.

[Dimsum]

My only question (well, at this time) is what happens when you find out that Inf O is a red trade at your 10-year mark and can't transfer out of the trade? 

It seems like you have your life planned out.  That's all well and good, but remember that the military is the definition of "maximum flexibility" in terms of lifestyle and career.  You won't know where you'll end up 6 months down the road, let alone 30 years.  If that doesn't sit well, even a little bit, join the Reserves.

[WoutWarningWoutRemorse]

What I'm getting is that the OP wants to joint as Inf O, do that for 10 years (or until getting his Masters), remuster to Int O, do that for 10 years (or until he gets LLB or JD) and then remuster to Legal Officer.

I can't see that happening myself, OTs aren't always easy, despite one having the qualifications.

That is more or less the plan. However, I am completely amendable to change and or development of plans. Thank you all for your comments. From this I am getting an more or less accurate idea of the CF's post enrolment educational opportunities.

[Jim Seggie]

From this I am getting an more or less accurate idea of the CF's post enrolment educational opportunities.

The real education begins when you start to command troops in the field, not your peers in RMC or where ever. Troops will educate you faster than any university will.

Actually troops can "School" you. Real fast. So can the enemy.

[Pusser]

I want to get the best/most of life as I can, while serving my country and teaching /co-operating with others. I can join now as an Infantry Officer and or Intelligence officer.  If I start as a Infantry officer and then get a Master (put in 10 years as infantry) then become and Intelligence Officer (and hopefully get a Masters/PHD in the process), do that for ten years meanwhile getting a law degree and then become a legal officer (do that for 10 years).
I am 25 years old
plus 10 years Infantry officer
plus 10 years Intelligence officer
plus 10 years Legal Officer
=55years old and retire with 30 years service (sounds like a good/well rounded life)
PS. once retired teach and write books

Wow!  I get tired just reading this plan.   You need a little less caffeine in your life.

Your plan is theoretically possible, assuming all the stars and planets align, but not very realistic.

Bouncing from one occupation to another is indeed possible, but never guaranteed and frequently difficult and time consuming.  The trouble is that your desired new occupation must be willing to accept you into their ranks and your current occupation needs to be willing to let you go.  This can be difficult.  Part of the problem is the cost of training you.  Once we've invested in you for one occupation, we want our pound of flesh (and then some). 

On the positive side, the Intelligence Branch wants people to have an operational background, which in ten years in the infantry, you hopefully should have.  As for law school, there is the Military Legal Training Plan (MLTP) which takes serving members and send them to law school - on full salary, with tuition paid (however, you have to get yourself accepted to law school first - on your own).

You seem very confident in your abilities, but overly presumptuous at the same time.  Just because you're super-intelligent and can do 100m in 9.0s with a fridge on your back, does not mean you have what it takes to be an officer in the CF.  There have been plenty of cocksure super-jock overachievers who have failed miserably.

[WoutWarningWoutRemorse]

Your plan is theoretically possible, assuming all the stars and planets align, but not very realistic.

On the positive side, the Intelligence Branch wants people to have an operational background, which in ten years in the infantry, you hopefully should have.  As for law school, there is the Military Legal Training Plan (MLTP) which takes serving members and send them to law school - on full salary, with tuition paid (however, you have to get yourself accepted to law school first - on your own).

Wow. Thank you for this post. All these other people who commented, I assume in all earnestness and good faith, must have forgotten about the intelligence branch wanting operational background. And the MLTP which is very kind of you to mention must have just been invented because all the other people were either ignorant of it or didnt want to admit/mention its existence. Well thank you very much for restoring my faith in the kindness/intelligence of others.

PS. I got a 161 on my LSAT and have a 3.0 from U of T, I can easily get into law school. Also I run the 100 in 9.7 and no fridge.\

Thanks a lot I really appreciate your comment.

[Scott]

I notice you conveniently snipped out the other very important information your newfound saviour posted for you.

And with your other little digs I am now convinced this isn't going to end well unless you get the exact answers that you desire, and that you might just be a troll.

Good luck.

[ballz]

Luckily for you, the CF will provide you with a much-needed healthy dose of reality, too.

But unfortunately, all officer trades require a level of maturity that seems to have flown over your head.

Good bye Troll, I am finally going to figure out how to use the ignore function that Mike so kindly offers.

PS. Another thing that seems to have flown over your head... if the CF is so eager to get INT O's with an operational background... what makes you think they are so eager to let them transfer out?

[Scott]

I'm now having a chuckle at thinking of how the interview will go...based on all of these "facts" so eagerly provided.

[jeffb]

Well thank you very much for restoring my faith in the kindness/intelligence of others.

Ok, as someone who tried to provide some advice through 3 posts in this thread, that comment pissed me off. I am actually in the process of accomplishing much of what your theoretical plan proposes. You do not have to accept the advice given to you here but to turn around and call into question the intelligence or motivations of the people that took time out of their day to give you some free life advice is frankly just ignorant. An honest answer is the best sort of kindness that there is.

Go through my post history, I don't get mad very often/ever on this forum...

PS. I got a 161 on my LSAT and have a 3.0 from U of T, I can easily get into law school. Also I run the 100 in 9.7 and no fridge.\

Good for you. I have a 3 year college diploma, a degree from U of T, a commercial pilots license, add I am working my way through a MA and a MBA, finished my OPME's (with honors) and numerous courses through the CF. Throw in that I actually go to work and find time to compete in adventure races in my spare time. I think I kind of know what I'm talking about when it comes to balancing school and work but at the end of the day the only measure of my success that I hold myself to is my ability to perform my chosen profession and that is something that I strive every day to improve.

Everyone in the CF works extremely hard balancing work with the rest of their life and may, just possibly, have some idea what they are talking about.

[/rant]

[WoutWarningWoutRemorse]

I notice you conveniently snipped out the other very important information your newfound saviour posted for you.

And with your other little digs I am now convinced this isn't going to end well unless you get the exact answers that you desire, and that you might just be a troll.

Good luck.

What is all this troll business. All I want is someone who know what they are talking about to provide some basic information.  No for people who are unable to do thing themselves to tell others they cant do it.

I think that when i was young it was easy for people, given my special personal circumstances, to say that i couldn't finish high school.  Then it was even easier for people to say that getting into university was very diffucult not to mention one, if the not the, best ones in Canada. Then it was easy to say that I couldnt get three majors. But sorry to say I did it. If this angers people they can hate all they want and call me an instigator and or troll, if my success and ambition angers you or make you look bad, its non of my business.

All ive been asking for is if there are in existence for continuing eduction in the forces, i dont care if there is only 1 in 100 or 1000 who get in, as long as there is a will and an opportunity there is a way. But other than the last guy everyone has been saying no its near impossible, it doesnt exist, pick one or the other, work work work, etc.  I just dont understand what one loses saying that ya there is this programme available, at the end of the day i will see how hard/competitive/time consuming it is.

I didnt snip out his other comments out of convenience just they dont pertain to what this threads intention is.

Once again i thank and welcome all those who tell me about possibilities not how hard life and reality is and the improbabilities of success (thats just a given fact of life which should be implied)

[milnews.ca]

What is all this troll business? All I want is someone who knows what they are talking about to provide some basic information.  Not for people who are unable to do something themselves to tell others they can't do it.

1)  Fixed all that for you
2)  Several people, with extensive on-the-job experience AND educational qualifications, have shared advice with you here.  YOU'RE the one asking about what the military is about, so THEY'RE not the ones "who are unable to do something themselves" - they've done it, you haven't yet.

Just a friendly warning about broad brush attacks ....

Milnet.ca Staff

[SentryMAn]

I take it "English", Writing, nor Communications were included in that triple major you received?

You've asked for informaiton from those that know, I think if you click on the names of the people show have posted(excluding myself) you'll quickly realize that they ARE on the know and combined have over 100 years of experience in the Canadian forces.

But I will say this.  You WILL have to give in on something if you want to achieve all the things you want.  Most likely to attain everything you want in life it will be family/friends.  Please take this with a grain of salt, I know many people that have completed a Master and PHD.  They did both full time and it took combined about 4-6 years total. 

What you shoudl take away from this is this:
Doing military training is a Full time job, if you have time to study, it will be for your military career courses.  Once you are trade qualified you may have the options available to pursue higher education external to the military but your work will always be required to come first.  Doing a Master part time is always an option, however it may not fit into your life's plan as it can take up to 10 years to complete. The same would be for completing a PHD.

Please also note that "paper" education is not the ONLY type of education you can receive.  Education can come from so many different forms it is unbelievable.  Life gives you education each and every day, if you choose to accept it.

[Jim Seggie]

WWWR - you just got "schooled". This was an easy one.

BTW - your name is interesting  - do you have aspirations of becoming a sniper?

[WoutWarningWoutRemorse]

I take it "English", Writing, nor Communications were included in that triple major you received?

You've asked for informaiton from those that know, I think if you click on the names of the people show have posted(excluding myself) you'll quickly realize that they ARE on the know and combined have over 100 years of experience in the Canadian forces.

But I will say this.  You WILL have to give in on something if you want to achieve all the things you want.  Most likely to attain everything you want in life it will be family/friends.  Please take this with a grain of salt, I know many people that have completed a Master and PHD.  They did both full time and it took combined about 4-6 years total. 

What you shoudl take away from this is this:
Doing military training is a Full time job, if you have time to study, it will be for your military career courses.  Once you are trade qualified you may have the options available to pursue higher education external to the military but your work will always be required to come first.  Doing a Master part time is always an option, however it may not fit into your life's plan as it can take up to 10 years to complete. The same would be for completing a PHD.

Please also note that "paper" education is not the ONLY type of education you can receive.  Education can come from so many different forms it is unbelievable.  Life gives you education each and every day, if you choose to accept it.

Great comment and thanks you. Sorry I didn't know my posts were getting marked for style, syntax and grammar and or spelling. I will try harder.

Al thought I greatly appreciate your, as well as the experience of others who have posted, in all honesty my question was more on the eductional side of things not on the CF side.  I know this seems nonsensical and or counter-intuitive, but although you may have served 50 years or more in the CF if you have not tried to do what I am trying to do your answer/comments are not "on point". Although I greatly appreciate the input it isn't helping with THIS current issue im having.

Also it's great that members and or their friends have done Master's/PHD, but how did they do it, for example the one thread mentioned MLTP, I would appreciate more feedback in this vein.

Once again thank you for all those who contribute, and nothing personal, just some comments are not pertinent to my INTENDED question.  If there has been ambiguity in this regard I take sole responsibility.

Thanks

[WoutWarningWoutRemorse]

BTW - your name is interesting  - do you have aspirations of becoming a sniper?

Nope just like shooting long distance. 500-800 yrs Remington 700 in .308 just over MOA

[frank1515]

Great comment and thanks you. Sorry I didn't know my posts were getting marked for style, syntax and grammar and or spelling. I will try harder.

Al thought I greatly appreciate your, as well as the experience of others who have posted, in all honesty my question was more on the eductional side of things not on the CF side.  I know this seems nonsensical and or counter-intuitive, but although you may have served 50 years or more in the CF if you have not tried to do what I am trying to do your answer/comments are not "on point".

Au contraire, mon ami!

Education is directly related to CF and the need of the organization. See *need of the organization*. The only thing posters are trying to say on this board is that, as your plan calls for, if you want to be a Legal Officer, be a Legal Officer and don't jump occupations because ultimately, the last thing troops want is a Platoon Comd who doesn't want to be a Platoon Comd, but a JAG instead. Your enthusiasm for the job will drop and the guys and girls you're trying to lead, will suffer because of that.

The CF isn't a way to get a free Ph.D. Sure to some select few, it is offered, but the goal of the CF is to adhere to the CFDS, not giving out Ph.Ds.

[Bruce Monkhouse]

I really can't see this lad listening to anyone who doesn't just answer 'yes, you can" so I'm locking this up.
Bruce.
Staff

Oh, by the way, I'm a grade 9 dropout who would be mortified if all I had to show the world was your written skills.