Topic: The current navy uniform

[jollyjacktar]

ERC, as always, eloquently put.  BZ.  And that is more or less what my Dad said years ago.  And he was one of the Soldiers who was waiting whilst the RCN and RCAF got on with it.   

[trigger]

Straight from the horse's mouth (so to speak); MARGEN 34/09(Unclass):
".....THE NAVY BLACK UNIT BALLCAP (RED FOR SEA TRAINING) MAY NOW BE WORN AS AN ALTERNATIVE, OPTIONAL ITEM WITH NAVAL COMBAT DRESS ASHORE OR ANYWHERE THAT NCDS ARE AUTHORIZED FOR WEAR.  THE ONLY MARKINGS AUTHORIZED ARE ON THE FRONT PANEL OF THE CAP AND THEY REMAIN THE UNITS NAME AND DESIGNATOR WITH SIDE NUMBERS AS APPLICABLE.
2. THIS POLICY APPLIES TO ALL UNITS CURRENTLY AUTHORIZED BY MARCOM TO ISSUE BALLCAPS FOR WEAR WITH NAVAL COMBAT DRESS...."

does anyone know what prompted this change in the dress regs for ncd's?  i was off on an extended period of leave when this came down and since i've been back to work, i can't get a straight answer why it happened, nor can i bring myself to wearing my ballcap as part of my 'walking out rig'...don't get me wrong, when i'm in civies i've usually got a baseball cap on, because i love wearing one, but i just wouldn't feel right with that as my headress in uniform.  my army and airforce friends wear berets with their everyday operational/occupational wear while coming and going, i just seem to prefer to wear the equivalent.  call me pusser...

[kratz]

I do not take anything I view online as gospel until I confirm it at work. As for the MARGEN approving the use of the ballcap and the reason for the change...I have read the reference and no reason for the change is offered.

In fact many locations I am informed, where NCDs are approved still do not allow the ballcap for walking out rig. Ultimately, I think the change is meant to allow the average sailor to drive to and from the ship in one headdress, park and walk into work without getting into a dressing down over forgetting to change headdress. This happens too often near the gates between the dockyard and parking lots.

This is my personal experience and not an official answer, just some common dog flogg. 

[gcclarke]

I do not take anything I view online as gospel until I confirm it at work. As for the MARGEN approving the use of the ballcap and the reason for the change...I have read the reference and no reason for the change is offered.

In fact many locations I am informed, where NCDs are approved still do not allow the ballcap for walking out rig. Ultimately, I think the change is meant to allow the average sailor to drive to and from the ship in one headdress, park and walk into work without getting into a dressing down over forgetting to change headdress. This happens too often near the gates between the dockyard and parking lots.

This is my personal experience and not an official answer, just some common dog flogg. 

Well, if it had been up to me, the decision would have been made because I think the berets look silly, and the ball caps look better. But, that's just me. I rather think that kratz's answer hits a lot closer to home. The idea of being forced to change your uniform (even a part thereof) on your way to and from work is rather ridiculous. And let's face it, who wears their beret on ship? Even assuming that you have a choice, and that dress of the day isn't defined as NCDs plus ball caps.

[Sailorwest]

I was of the opinion that it was a bone thrown to sailors who were being told that they can't have a beard anymore in seagoing billets.  Probably not true but the decisions seemed to come out one in close succession.

[gcclarke]

I was of the opinion that it was a bone thrown to sailors who were being told that they can't have a beard anymore in seagoing billets.  Probably not true but the decisions seemed to come out one in close succession.

Safety issues versus dress and decorum issues? I would think they are probably unrelated.

[kratz]

I finally found one of our sailors wearing a set of the new NCDs. I commented on the Velcro pockets wearing out. The conversation turned to the small DEU buttons and I mentioned the big buttons from the old olive drab uniforms that could be opened with gloves on.

I was amazed when one of these new sailors (less than 2 years experience) wanted to see a Naval version of CADPAT vice the old or new NCDs. When I mentioned, I am used to the days of wearing salt and peppers to work daily, he was stunned.

The conversation was a reminder how the changes in dress affect the current members of the CF.

[hamiltongs]

I was amazed when one of these new sailors (less than 2 years experience) wanted to see a Naval version of CADPAT vice the old or new NCDs.

Interesting. I just spent a couple of weeks on a US ship and every one of the US sailors I talked to hated the new "navy camo" uniform that are being phased in (these guys had just started wearing them). I guess the grass really is always greener.

[jollyjacktar]

Interesting. I just spent a couple of weeks on a US ship and every one of the US sailors I talked to hated the new "navy camo" uniform that are being phased in (these guys had just started wearing them). I guess the grass really is always greener.

Of course they hate them, they have to be the ugliest uniform designed after the former Garrison dress of the 90's which looked like something from a Canadian Tire nightmare.  Mind you the RAN cammo looks damn ugly too.  Some Armchair Admiral's idea no doubt.  Perhaps they thought morale was not low enough.

[Pat in Halifax]

It has now happenned - Unfortunately I was running late after having dropped someone off at the Dkyd and heading up to Stad (and in civis on a DWAD Friday), otherwise, I would have been all over this guy. I saw someone  getting out of his car wearing FF coveralls with a grean cammo jacket and black ship's ball cap - looked horrendous, embarassing.... I wondered how long it would take one sh**head to potentially ruin this!
Hindsight being 20/20, I should have stopped and been late for work.

[gcclarke]

It has now happenned - Unfortunately I was running late after having dropped someone off at the Dkyd and heading up to Stad (and in civis on a DWAD Friday), otherwise, I would have been all over this guy. I saw someone  getting out of his car wearing FF coveralls with a grean cammo jacket and black ship's ball cap - looked horrendous, embarassing.... I wondered how long it would take one sh**head to potentially ruin this!
Hindsight being 20/20, I should have stopped and been late for work.

From MARGEN 034/09:

THE NAVY BLACK UNIT BALLCAP (RED FOR SEA TRAINING) MAY NOW BE WORN AS AN ALTERNATIVE, OPTIONAL ITEM WITH NAVAL COMBAT DRESS ASHORE OR ANYWHERE THAT NCDS ARE AUTHORIZED FOR WEAR.

Emphasis mine. Very clearly that individual was not authorized to be wearing that particular get-up.

[jollyjacktar]

From MARGEN 034/09:

Emphasis mine. Very clearly that individual was not authorized to be wearing that particular get-up.

As a FF, the coverall IS his ship board dress equivillant not NCD.  Therefore he should be in the right despite it looking not pretty.

[N. McKay]

As a FF, the coverall IS his ship board dress equivillant not NCD.  Therefore he should be in the right despite it looking not pretty.

Equivalent, perhaps, but the MARGEN doesn't say "NCDs or equivalent".  Had the intention been to include coveralls the drafter would probably have said so.

Are coveralls authorized as a walking-our rig in the first place?

[Retired FDO]

I was under the impression that you could not mix and match the uniforms. If the FF wanted to wear his coveralls as a walking out rig would he not have to wear the Air Force blue Gortex jacket and beret? If he was in CADPAT then he would wear the CADPAT jacket and beret.

[quadrapiper]

It has now happenned - Unfortunately I was running late after having dropped someone off at the Dkyd and heading up to Stad (and in civis on a DWAD Friday), otherwise, I would have been all over this guy. I saw someone  getting out of his car wearing FF coveralls with a grean cammo jacket and black ship's ball cap - looked horrendous, embarassing.... I wondered how long it would take one sh**head to potentially ruin this!
Hindsight being 20/20, I should have stopped and been late for work.

Was this individual a CF Fire Service type, if that's the name of the organization? Or definitely CF proper? In other words, do these regs even apply?

[gcclarke]

Was this individual a CF Fire Service type, if that's the name of the organization? Or definitely CF proper? In other words, do these regs even apply?

Yes, we're talking about one of these guys: www.forces.ca/html/firefighter_reg_en.aspx

Although it's an Air Force only trade, they often serve aboard HMC Ships. ... Not sure about the subs.

[sledge]

Firefighters are allowed to walk in and out in their coveralls. They no longer have blue jackets just Cadpat ones. So he was properly attired. Not sure about the ballcap though.