Topic: The CF Principles of Leadership and the Principles of War

[Gunner78]

Well, I believe they have changed due to the changing sociology in the world. For example, todays new leaders are educated, along with the progression of technology, information is passed quickly. I still prefer the old "10 principles". It was much easier to apply and remember, where I find the new 12 principles did take out any room for error, they are very wordy. I fail at being clear and concise at times, but it makes sense upstairs.

[Simian Turner]

Some refs requested by RIR:

Wavell: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archibald_Wavell,_1st_Earl_Wavell

Field-Marshal Wavell's book: Soldiers and Soldiering (London, 1953)

US Doctrine - war phases: http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ops/mtw-refs.htm

[RIR]

Simian

Thank you for your help I have a copy of the book you mention but I must admit they don't immediately jump out from the page. I will have another look this evening.

[daftandbarmy]

I wonder if being a 'copy cat' is one of the unwritten leadership principles?

It would seem that the USMC have the same principles as we do!

http://www.brooksidepress.org/Products/OperationalMedicine/DATA/operationalmed/Manuals/FMSS/PrinciplesofMarineCorpsLeadership.htm

http://classes.engr.oregonstate.edu/eecs/fall2007/ece507-003/LeadershipPrinciple.pdf

http://www.hackworth.com/11princldrshp.html

[GAP]

Who copied whom?

[daftandbarmy]

Who copied whom?

I was looking for a file that I had found about a year ago with a copy of these principles printed in a US Army field manual in 1970. So I'm guessing that we copied them. Sigh....

[Neo Cortex]

I was looking for a file that I had found about a year ago with a copy of these principles printed in a US Army field manual in 1970. So I'm guessing that we copied them. Sigh....

Don't be so quick to assume. "Semper Fidelis", was adopted by the USMC in 1883, however it had been used by the British Army as earliest as 1852.

[ObedientiaZelum]

The United States Air Force seems to think so, they've compiled a handy reading list: http://www.au.af.mil/au/aul/bibs/followership.htm

Where? I don't see it.

[DrillDill]

Is there any principles of followership handy? I've done a search but havn't found any lists.

found this:http://stevespages.com/zip/canadian_b-gl-300-000fp-000%20-%204_january_1998.zip


out of this really interesting site:http://www.stevespages.com/page7c.htm

[Petamocto]

I find the new list almost impossibly harder to learn and memorize that the list of ten from 5 years ago.

What used to be simple ones like "Lead by example" and "Achieve professional competence" have turned into a list of 12 things that are in some bullets each 3-4 points.

[Tetragrammaton]

These are the lists I'm most familiar with.

1. Achieve professional competence and pursue self-improvement;
2. Clarify objectives and intent;
3. Solve problems and make timely decision
4. Direct; motivate by persuasion and example and by sharing risks and hardships (that is, lead by example)
5. Train under demanding and realistic conditions;
6. Build teamwork and cohesion;
7. Keep subordinates informed;
8. Mentor, educate and develop subordinates;
9. Treat subordinates fairly;
10. Maintain situational awareness, seek information and keep current;
11. Learn from experience and those who have experience; and
12. Exemplify and reinforce the military ethos; maintain order and discipline; and uphold professional norms (that is, lead by example).

1. Achieve professional competence.
2. Appreciate your own strengths and limitations and pursue self-improvement.
3. Seek and accept responsibility.
4. Lead by example.
5. Make sure that your followers know your meaning and intent, then lead them to the accomplishment of the mission
6. Know your soldiers and promote their welfare.
7. Develop the leadership potential of your followers.
8. Make sound and timely decisions.
9. Train your soldiers as a team and employ them up to their capabilities.
10. Keep your followers informed of the mission, the changing situation and the overall picture.
11. Never volunteer.







OK, the last one I added for laughs. 

Two I would add for real would be;

1. Ask for clarification when uncertain.
2. Admit to one's errors.

[Petamocto]

Yes those are the two lists.

It doesn't seem like much of a difference until you realize how many sub-bullets there are.

Sadly, in a lot of cases those subtle differences push the list past the point of being easily memorized.

[Technoviking]

These are the lists I'm most familiar with.

1. Achieve professional competence and pursue self-improvement;
2. Clarify objectives and intent;
3. Solve problems and make timely decision
4. Direct; motivate by persuasion and example and by sharing risks and hardships (that is, lead by example)
5. Train under demanding and realistic conditions;
6. Build teamwork and cohesion;
7. Keep subordinates informed;
8. Mentor, educate and develop subordinates;
9. Treat subordinates fairly;
10. Maintain situational awareness, seek information and keep current;
11. Learn from experience and those who have experience; and
12. Exemplify and reinforce the military ethos; maintain order and discipline; and uphold professional norms (that is, lead by example).

1. Achieve professional competence.
2. Appreciate your own strengths and limitations and pursue self-improvement.
3. Seek and accept responsibility.
4. Lead by example.
5. Make sure that your followers know your meaning and intent, then lead them to the accomplishment of the mission
6. Know your soldiers and promote their welfare.
7. Develop the leadership potential of your followers.
8. Make sound and timely decisions.
9. Train your soldiers as a team and employ them up to their capabilities.
10. Keep your followers informed of the mission, the changing situation and the overall picture.
11. Never volunteer.







OK, the last one I added for laughs. 

Two I would add for real would be;

1. Ask for clarification when uncertain.
2. Admit to one's errors.

Maybe you meant to say "Don't be redundant"?  The bolded and yellow parts in the lists above cover what you "added".

[Tetragrammaton]

I sit corrected.

[Technoviking]

I sit corrected.

It looks like you both learned from experience and accepted responsibility


Actually, I think "they" added what "they" thought were good ideas, but were actually adding nil value when they expanded from a quick list to a list where one needs a slide rule to interpret it!

[GnyHwy]

An attempt to bring this thread back to life. 

The first quote, a humorous but absurdly true post.  The second, a brutally honest truth.

Well, I don't know anything about leadership, but how about this: "The Five Stages of Any Military Endeavour"
1) Great Expectations.
2) Failure
3) Panic
4) Search for a Scapegoat
5) Punishment of the Innocent
6) Reward of  the Unworthy

Military incompetence involves:

  A serious wastage of human resources and failure to observe one of the first principles of war - economy of force.
  A fundamental conservatism and clinging to outworn tradition, an inability to profit from past mistakes (owing in part to a refusal to admit past mistakes).
  A tendency to reject or ignore information which is unpalatable or which conflicts with preconceptions.
  A tendency to underestimate the enemy and overestimate the capabilities of one's own side.
  Indecisiveness and a tendency to abdicate from the role of decision-maker.
  An obstinate persistence in a given task despite strong contrary evidence.
  A failure to exploit a situation gained and a tendency to `pull punches' rather than push home an attack.
  A failure to make adequate reconnaissance.
  A predilection for frontal assaults, often against the enemy's strongest point.
  A belief in brute force, rather than the clever ruse.
  A failure to make use of surprise or deception.
  An undue readiness to find scapegoats for military set- backs.
  A suppression or distortion of news from the front, usually rationalized as necessary for morale or security.
  A belief in mystical forces - fate, bad luck, etc.

Norman F. Dixon, On the Psychology of Military Incompetence, 1976

Both of these sway from the obvious which is why I think they need revisiting. 

A quote from and old RSM.

Leadership is, getting the men to do what you want them to do because they want to do it.

We are all students of Principles of Leadership and War.  Those who think not are naive.

[ObedientiaZelum]

A predilection for frontal assaults, often against the enemy's strongest point.

So what worked in Afghanistan