Topic: The Going To Esquimalt Thread- PAT, PMQ, Etc.- Merged

[Chief Stoker]

See if you can be sent down to MOG 4 and work for the Senior ET down there, you might get a little experience. If you can get on a ship alongside that would be ok as well, get you ship familie done too.

[Pat in Halifax]

I'm sure you've found out by now but as a PAT fresh out of basic you aren't qualified to do anything, so if you're somehow attached to a ship you will be painting or prepping something to paint or cleaning something gross.  But the odds are you won't be allowed across the brow of a ship in any sort of work capacity until you at least have an NETP course, at which point you are qualified to cross the brow and maybe, just maybe stand fire sentry.  And if you were to get a shot at going to sea*, there's a 98% chance you would be employed as a Molly and that's about it.

There is no need to be anxious to get to a ship days out of basic - you'll have many glorious years (and years) to spend on ships after you finish your QL3.  Go to the gym, read books, play video games, make new friends and otherwise enjoy your last few months of shore life for a while.

*you will not go to sea as a PAT

Not 100% true. CFNES got into the habit when PATs came in from St Johns, of employing them on ships-albiet ships either ramping down or fresh out of DWPs. Learning your way around, the 'whos who', daily routines, departmental responsibilities etc is FAR MORE valuable than "painting rocks at the Main Gate".
I am actually surprised this is not policy...or maybe it is?? Someone from either School can better supply the answer here.

[Stacked]

I'm sure you've found out by now but as a PAT fresh out of basic you aren't qualified to do anything, so if you're somehow attached to a ship you will be painting or prepping something to paint or cleaning something gross.  But the odds are you won't be allowed across the brow of a ship in any sort of work capacity until you at least have an NETP course, at which point you are qualified to cross the brow and maybe, just maybe stand fire sentry.  And if you were to get a shot at going to sea*, there's a 98% chance you would be employed as a Molly and that's about it.

There is no need to be anxious to get to a ship days out of basic - you'll have many glorious years (and years) to spend on ships after you finish your QL3.  Go to the gym, read books, play video games, make new friends and otherwise enjoy your last few months of shore life for a while.

*you will not go to sea as a PAT

I've actually managed to get a tasking onto one of the Orca's. I'll get a bit of sea time out of it which is great.  The position I am being employed in is "Wach on Deck". Sure as hell beats sitting around doing nothing.

[CDN Aviator]

Sure as hell beats sitting around doing nothing.

If you had been on PAT doing nothing, i would have given you a "fail" in the leadership and initiative departments. I'm glad you have found something on ship. I have seen so many young Privates on PAT complain of nothing to do when they routinely bitched about every assignment they got. I've also seen many ***** about not having anything to do and never lift a finger to find something, let alone ask the CoC for employment.

Everywhere i have been, a blind man could see a thousand things to do.

[VanStoker]

Hello all,

I'm new to the forums, and new to the C.F.  I'm going to be moving to esquimalt soon to start my trade training and NETP course.  Nobody here at CFLRS has any answers to any of the questions I have at this point.  "Your new unit will be able to answer those questions"  is all I've been able to get from anyone. 

I know I'll be living in shacks for the duration of this training, but does anyone around here know how long that will be for?  I really hope I'm not going to be one of those poor guys stuck on pat platoon for many months or even years (a buddy of mine went army a few years back and he was on pat platoon for just under two years)

I'm a mature 32 year old and the 13 weeks of basic has been enough of bunking with immature 18-19 or even young 20 year olds.  I'm hoping that this won't be the case in esquimalt, that being said my patience level has grown exponentially so I'll be able to deal with it if I have to.

Another question, my girlfriend certainly does not want to be away from me any longer.  She's considering moving to Victoria/Esquimalt while I am at school for these courses...Will I be able to see her after work during the week?  And maybe stay with her on weekends?  Basically what are the SOP's for staying in these shacks?  Can I leave and sleep elsewhere on occasion?  Do some guys have girlfriends that they can stay out with.  Is this something that happens?

Also can anyone shed some light on what the working hours are while you are on pat platoon?  Or even what the working hours will be while on NETP or trade training course?

Thank you and any information will be very much appreciated.

Cheers!

[Melbatoast]

I've actually managed to get a tasking onto one of the Orca's. I'll get a bit of sea time out of it which is great.  The position I am being employed in is "Wach on Deck". Sure as hell beats sitting around doing nothing.

I spent my first 3 weeks on a ship bombing around the straits - when we tied up my watch PO2 asked how I was feeling and I said "I'm getting used to this 'being at sea' thing."  He came back with an exasperated "Yeah, we haven't been to sea."

Not taking anything away from the Orca tasking, you should learn some useful stuff and have some fun.  Watch on deck is bos'n stuff - lookouts, linehandling, "ship's husbandry" (euphemism for cleaning).  Honest work, you could call it.  My PAT shipboard posting was masking wireways for painting in HMCS CALGARY for a month.  The galley and main cave were gutted so we ate sandwiches every day - a little more typical experience for a PAT.

[Chief Stoker]

I spent my first 3 weeks on a ship bombing around the straits - when we tied up my watch PO2 asked how I was feeling and I said "I'm getting used to this 'being at sea' thing."  He came back with an exasperated "Yeah, we haven't been to sea."

Not taking anything away from the Orca tasking, you should learn some useful stuff and have some fun.  Watch on deck is bos'n stuff - lookouts, linehandling, "ship's husbandry" (euphemism for cleaning).  Honest work, you could call it.  My PAT shipboard posting was masking wireways for painting in HMCS CALGARY for a month.  The galley and main cave were gutted so we ate sandwiches every day - a little more typical experience for a PAT.

Going to sea is going to sea even if its on a ORCA or a CPF in the straits no mather what a PO told you.  This is usefull to learn what a watch and station bill is and other shipboard activities, better than painting rocks or other fun. This "bos'n" stuff you speak of is seamanship and we are sailors first and yes ships husbandry such as cleaning stations, probably the most important part of ships husbandry on the ship.
Going to sea is not suppose to be fun, we are there to do a job. Fun comes in foreign port

[GhostofJacK]

Hello all,

I'm new to the forums, and new to the C.F.  I'm going to be moving to esquimalt soon to start my trade training and NETP course.  Nobody here at CFLRS has any answers to any of the questions I have at this point.  "Your new unit will be able to answer those questions"  is all I've been able to get from anyone. 

I know I'll be living in shacks for the duration of this training, but does anyone around here know how long that will be for?  I really hope I'm not going to be one of those poor guys stuck on pat platoon for many months or even years (a buddy of mine went army a few years back and he was on pat platoon for just under two years)

I'm a mature 32 year old and the 13 weeks of basic has been enough of bunking with immature 18-19 or even young 20 year olds.  I'm hoping that this won't be the case in esquimalt, that being said my patience level has grown exponentially so I'll be able to deal with it if I have to.

Another question, my girlfriend certainly does not want to be away from me any longer.  She's considering moving to Victoria/Esquimalt while I am at school for these courses...Will I be able to see her after work during the week?  And maybe stay with her on weekends?  Basically what are the SOP's for staying in these shacks?  Can I leave and sleep elsewhere on occasion?  Do some guys have girlfriends that they can stay out with.  Is this something that happens?

Also can anyone shed some light on what the working hours are while you are on pat platoon?  Or even what the working hours will be while on NETP or trade training course?

Thank you and any information will be very much appreciated.

Cheers!

Okay, this is my army answer so take it with a grain of salt.

With your initial training courses, you are CB'd for the first few weeks of the course. Usually, after you have passed some benchmark, you are granted weekends where you can go out and have the weekend on the town (with exception that your platoon-mates don't screw up during the week). At this time, you could stay with your girlfriend if you so wish but I would advise her NOT to move down prior to the end of your training. You also will not be able to see her during the week unless you wish to risk the AWOL charge. This is due to you may not be posted to a ship in Esquimalt and she'd have to move again. Also, if 13wks was a stress for her, wait until your ship goes out to sea or you are deployed.

Bunking with immature guys is part of training. I was merely 2-3 years older than some but I loathed Friday night for guys would come back drunk and pull pranks on everyone. You will find that these guys get their just desserts later in their carreer. Don't sweat it. Your patience is a very good asset to have during these times. Once you are done training, your job is like any job out there - you go to work and you come home (give or take certain exceptions to your particular job and when you serve duty)

As for how long your course is, I don't have an answer for that but be prepared to be on a PAT platoon before training. This will last as long as it needs to until a course opens up or there are qualified pers to instruct on your course. The key thing is that you need to stay eager and proactive if you are on a PAT platoon. Ask your supervisor if you can be put on any taskings and no matter how bad they are, keep asking for them. Trust me when I say that PAT can seem a million times longer if you do nothing on it and it will also look good to your future peers that you are a go-get'er.

[Melbatoast]

Going to sea is going to sea even if its on a ORCA or a CPF in the straits no mather what a PO told you.  This is usefull to learn what a watch and station bill is and other shipboard activities, better than painting rocks or other fun. This "bos'n" stuff you speak of is seamanship and we are sailors first and yes ships husbandry such as cleaning stations, probably the most important part of ships husbandry on the ship.
Going to sea is not suppose to be fun, we are there to do a job. Fun comes in foreign port

Thanks Chief but I've got some sea time and happen to agree with the PO, but I was just relating a learning experience I had (I'm also a PO - well, paid like one).  There is a qualitative difference between the glassy water of the straits and the huge swell past buoy "J," but of course sea time is sea time.  Orcas occasionally head out there, too, but probably not this time of year. 

And as a former sonar op I've stood far more watch on deck than I care to remember, so I'm extremely familiar with seamanship, ship's husbandry and all the associated fun and value.

[Melbatoast]

Okay, this is my army answer so take it with a grain of salt.

With your initial training courses, you are CB'd for the first few weeks of the course. Usually, after you have passed some benchmark, you are granted weekends where you can go out and have the weekend on the town (with exception that your platoon-mates don't screw up during the week). At this time, you could stay with your girlfriend if you so wish but I would advise her NOT to move down prior to the end of your training. You also will not be able to see her during the week unless you wish to risk the AWOL charge. This is due to you may not be posted to a ship in Esquimalt and she'd have to move again. Also, if 13wks was a stress for her, wait until your ship goes out to sea or you are deployed.

Bunking with immature guys is part of training. I was merely 2-3 years older than some but I loathed Friday night for guys would come back drunk and pull pranks on everyone. You will find that these guys get their just desserts later in their carreer. Don't sweat it. Your patience is a very good asset to have during these times. Once you are done training, your job is like any job out there - you go to work and you come home (give or take certain exceptions to your particular job and when you serve duty)

As for how long your course is, I don't have an answer for that but be prepared to be on a PAT platoon before training. This will last as long as it needs to until a course opens up or there are qualified pers to instruct on your course. The key thing is that you need to stay eager and proactive if you are on a PAT platoon. Ask your supervisor if you can be put on any taskings and no matter how bad they are, keep asking for them. Trust me when I say that PAT can seem a million times longer if you do nothing on it and it will also look good to your future peers that you are a go-get'er.

Esquimalt is a lot different than that.  It varies from school-to-school but generally you are required to "maintain a bed" in Nelles block, but don't have to sleep in it.  You're not CBed.  You won't get PLD, but if you or girlfriend want to try to find a place to rent for 3-6 months, completely on your own dime in one of the country's most expensive cities, have at it.  If you are not married or common-law, I expect you'll still be deducted rations and quarters, which is a hefty chunk of an Ordinary Seaman's salary.  You have to come back to Nelles for scheduled room inspections, and make sure your school knows where you will be living.

I'm sure there are there details unique to the stoker school, and maybe they don't allow any of that but Nelles is not like Army shacks.  I know I saw a post by staff at the stoker school recently, hopefully he will chime in.

[GhostofJacK]

Esquimalt is a lot different than that.  It varies from school-to-school but generally you are required to "maintain a bed" in Nelles block, but don't have to sleep in it.  You're not CBed.  You won't get PLD, but if you or girlfriend want to try to find a place to rent for 3-6 months, completely on your own dime in one of the country's most expensive cities, have at it.  If you are not married or common-law, I expect you'll still be deducted rations and quarters, which is a hefty chunk of an Ordinary Seaman's salary.  You have to come back to Nelles for scheduled room inspections, and make sure your school knows where you will be living.

I'm sure there are there details unique to the stoker school, and maybe they don't allow any of that but Nelles is not like Army shacks.  I know I saw a post by staff at the stoker school recently, hopefully he will chime in.

Thank you for edumacating me and showing me that we have it 'special' in the Army. Hats off for you navy folk and closing the book on me making any comments about navy things again.

[Chief Stoker]

Thank you for edumacating me and showing me that we have it 'special' in the Army. Hats off for you navy folk and closing the book on me making any comments about navy things again.

Hey man I think there's some sound advice in your post that's very applicable to our own PAT's. Of course there's going to be some differences between the elements. Thanks for the post.

Cheers

[Pusser]

Thanks Chief but I've got some sea time and happen to agree with the PO, but I was just relating a learning experience I had (I'm also a PO - well, paid like one).  There is a qualitative difference between the glassy water of the straits and the huge swell past buoy "J," but of course sea time is sea time.  Orcas occasionally head out there, too, but probably not this time of year. 

And as a former sonar op I've stood far more watch on deck than I care to remember, so I'm extremely familiar with seamanship, ship's husbandry and all the associated fun and value.

Frankly, I've had much rougher rides in small boats and ships than in any destroyer.  As far as I'm concerned, if there's room to manoeuvre, you're at sea, regardless of what's on the horizon.

I think the gist of Chief Stoker's comments about watch on deck was that you called it "boatswain stuff."  His point (and I agree) is that it is not exclusively "boatswain stuff."  It's all "sailor stuff," which is "everybody on board stuff."

For the OP:

There are two basic rules of thumb in the Navy:  1) show up on time, and 2) be in the proper dress.  Many indiscretions will be forgiven (in the long run) if you simply follow these rules.  If you are required to "live in" quarters, as long as you show up on time and in the correct dress, no one cares where you actually sleep (other than a jail cell - and even then, you'd probably have to do it more than once before it becomes a major issue - as long as you show up on time and in the correct dress).

As someone else pointed out, if you are single and ordered to "live in," you will have to pay for rations and quarters (R&Q), which isn't cheap.  However, if the plan is that you will be in Esquimalt for awhile, you may be allowed to move out and get your own place (and stop paying R&Q and pay rent instead).  It never hurts to ask.  Whether your girlfriend moves to Esquimalt is entirely up to her.  Just realize that you/her may be on the hook for all the expenses associated with that.

[Stacked]

What I've seen some guys doing here is putting in a memo to stop paying rations and buy their own food. They just had to explain how they were going to eat. (You're not aloud to have hotplates or anything in the rooms) and if they provided a reasonable answer they were able to stop paying. They still maintain a room and pay for Quarters though.

[MJP]

What I've seen some guys doing here is putting in a memo to stop paying rations and buy their own food. They just had to explain how they were going to eat. (You're not aloud to have hotplates or anything in the rooms) and if they provided a reasonable answer they were able to stop paying. They still maintain a room and pay for Quarters though.

That is interesting considering that many folks across the country were forced to re-link their rations to their quarters a few years back.  We had quite a large discussion at the time about that matter( http://forums.army.ca/forums/index.php/topic,33594.50.html ).  Nice to see some places allow their members some measure of autonomy.

[Get Nautical]

As far as rations and quarters go, it was cheaper for me to eat at a restaurant every night then it was to pay for rations as I'm not hungry at 6pm but will be at 9 or 10pm. Wish they would of initiate a reloadable card you put money on but then there would be no money to go into the Base Commanders Slush Fund. I'm sure someone will be able to educate us as to exactly where all the money goes...certainly not for a new hand washing sink by the steam line at Nellies Block because new plumbing is expensive...especially now that they built the fancy stir fry bar where you are handling raw meat, guess gloves are cheaper...although I haven't been there in quite a while so maybe my opinion is dated.

[CDN Aviator]

You are not stirring any pots, just showing how clueless you are.

Well done.

[PMedMoe]

You are not stirring any pots, just showing how clueless you are.

Well done.

He was a cook.  Of course he didn't want to eat at the Mess.   

[Get Nautical]

It's not that the food wasn't good, most times it was...it's just that I'm a night owl, always have been.

[Melbatoast]

Frankly, I've had much rougher rides in small boats and ships than in any destroyer.  As far as I'm concerned, if there's room to manoeuvre, you're at sea, regardless of what's on the horizon.

I think the gist of Chief Stoker's comments about watch on deck was that you called it "boatswain stuff."  His point (and I agree) is that it is not exclusively "boatswain stuff."  It's all "sailor stuff," which is "everybody on board stuff."

This is a necro post but I have never seen an ET or stoker (or steward or navcomm or NCIOP...) stand regular watch-on-deck or do partship hands (NCIOPs excepted here), and it is my understanding that techs don't even man special sea duty positions (helm, etc) anymore because...well, who knows.  Instead, it's better for the ship and the Navy to have a PO2 Sonar Op do it 

I spent, realistic estimate, 90% of my time at sea employed out-of-trade and it wasn't higher only because I fought tooth and nail every day to be able to do my job or learn how to do my job.  And this is the point I shut up because I feel a rant coming on.  Suffice to say that no, not by a longshot does "everyone on board" do, or know how to do bos'n stuff.

[Get Nautical]

Suffice to say that no, not by a longshot does "everyone on board" do, or know how to do bos'n stuff.

I couldnt agree with you more, it is also appauling that they stress firefighting but then leave buddy first aid by the wayside, as a casualty clearer, responding to a Casualty Pipe (it was a weekend duty watch alongside homeport) I asked someone to assist, and im happy a PO stepped forward, but the PO didnt know how to do basic C-Spine. It's not just for the casualty clearing people, some have been in for 3-5 years or longer and have not done standard first aid since basic training. It is also a requirement for all Casualty Clearers to be AMFR2 qualified (expensive but excellent 2 week course) but thats a long way off as well.

[Pusser]

I spent, realistic estimate, 90% of my time at sea employed out-of-trade and it wasn't higher only because I fought tooth and nail every day to be able to do my job or learn how to do my job.  And this is the point I shut up because I feel a rant coming on.  Suffice to say that no, not by a longshot does "everyone on board" do, or know how to do bos'n stuff.

I never said they did.  My point was that what you were describing as "bos'n stuff" is not.  You were describing ship's husbandry and basic seamanship, which we expect all sailors to know.  "Boatswain stuff" goes way beyond that and no, we don't expect everyone to know it.

[Get Nautical]

I never said they did.  My point was that what you were describing as "bos'n stuff" is not.  You were describing ship's husbandry and basic seamanship, which we expect all sailors to know.  "Boatswain stuff" goes way beyond that and no, we don't expect everyone to know it.

Not to sound on the wrong tack but the galley packet is that regardless of it technically being incorrect, it sometimes still referred to Bosun Stuff.