Topic: Military Housing, CFHA, and the cost of renting a PMQ (and annual increases)

[rifleman]

 

So rent a civie house....

Leadership Technique #1

If a subordinate raises an issue that needs to be dealt with, tell him to get another job

[PPCLI Guy]

Rent a civie house sounds like LET THEM EAT CAKE.

Leadership Technique #1
If a subordinate raises an issue that needs to be dealt with, tell him to get another job

Gents,

You both know that is not how I meant it.  I was just struck by the statement that civies renting houses were getting a much better house for the same amount of rent - which led me to the conclusion that it would make more sense to rent a civie house.

[MCG]

Assuming that the civilian housing market has houses to be rented.

[Lone Wolf AT]

haha your Marie Antoinette.

[pbi]

PPCLI Guy: to the guillotine with you, you cake-eating, champagne-swilling oppressor of the masses!!

I know what you meant, but the other guys are right: it didn't come across very well.

However, having finally (after 20 years of PMQs) bought a small house in the Peg, and paying less for mortgage and taxes than I paid to rent a sub-standard PMQ in Oakville, I would encourage any service couple who can afford it to get out of the Qs and into the housing market. It is highly dependent on where you live and obviously on your income level (I would never even have dreamed of it as a Lt or junior Capt...) but if you can see your way, go for it. I can guarantee you will not want to go back. Cheers.

[Slim]

Everyones favourite fan of the CF speaks yet again...

Tue, November 16, 2004


Feds to lower forces' rents?

http://www.canoe.ca/NewsStand/TorontoSun/News/2004/11/16/716368.html

By STEPHANIE RUBEC, OTTAWA BUREAU

DEFENCE MINISTER Bill Graham is lobbying the treasury board to lower rents on military housing that are not up to par. "I understand this is a morale problem in the forces and I want to address it. It's important," Graham told Sun Media in an interview.

Graham said the military homes he's seen are of "an older quality" and need renovations, so soldiers living in them should pay less rent than they would for a similar sized home off the base.

Treasury board requires that all military houses be rented for the same price as a similar house off-site.

Graham said he's asked treasury board president Reg Alcock to re-visit the rules as it applies to the Canadian Forces' homes.

'APPLES TO APPLES'

"The rents should be calculated on the basis of comparable properties, not on the basis of general principles about what it's worth," he said. "Apples to apples."

Some soldiers living in the 16,690 homes and apartments on Canada's bases complain that many are so poorly insulated their food freezes in their cupboards and black mold is in the walls.

Rents were hiked by a maximum of $100 Nov. 1 to bring those homes that were not in line with the local market values up to the average rental costs.

Conservative MP Cheryl Gallant accused the Liberal government of making the rank-and-file pay for cuts to the defence budget with "huge rent increases."

[Lone Wolf AT]

Well that would be welcome news if it ever panned out.

[Proud Forester]

source, the Toronto Sun: 18 Nov 2004

Rent break for forces by holidays?



By STEPHANIE RUBEC, OTTAWA BUREAU


 
 
TREASURY BOARD President Reg Alcock is considering giving Canadian soldiers an early Christmas present -- a break on their military rents. Alcock said his staff is probing whether the Canadian Forces Housing Agency is properly applying federal rules requiring that the rents on military homes be comparable to similar houses in their area.

"If there is a flaw in the way the policy is applied, that's something that could probably be addressed fairly quickly," Alcock said in an interview yesterday.

Alcock said he's awaiting a report on whether that policy is fair to soldiers and their families.

"We'll get this addressed. It shouldn't take long," he said. "I can't imagine why it should take a long time. Christmas is another six more weeks. Hopefully it will be sooner."

Rents on some of the 16,690 military homes and apartments on bases across Canada were raised by up to $100 Nov. 1 in an effort to bring them in line with local rental prices.

[white]

If they were to match the rent of the houses in the area to those on the base then wouldn't alot more people move off base to live. In the end they might lose more money then they're trying to make.

[gun plumber]

Alot of people live on base for various reasons.It could be convinience(I for one like leaving for work at 0745 and still make it on time to have a smoke,chat, get a coffee and start at 0800),cost of local housing(the property around Wain world has sky rocketed with the influx of people),or the seemingly lower cost of rent in a PMQ(at least you don't have to pay for your own house repairs).
It's not a matter of turning a profit.For the amount of upkeep these houses require,there losing money anyways or at least,breaking even.A lot of people live off base anyways.The big thing here is,that when a civilian market controls the rent,you get unfair rent fees.
I don't know exactly how they do it,but it's out in left field.If I said to you"A 3bdrm duplex in Barrie costs 600.00 plus utilities.Therefor,a 3 bdrm duplex in Borden should cost 600.00 plus utilities"then that would seem fair.But hold on....the duplex in Barrie was built in 1985.It's been maintained,good backyard,If something goes wrong,it's dealt with immeadiatly,and is close to all conviences.600.00 dollars is still fair.
But lets look at the one on base.....built in 1950 for a boom in personal.has been maintained,but due to the gov't tender system,the maintaince preformed was sloppy and done on the cheap.(lowest bidder after all).The backyard looks like a WW1 overgrown battlefield,basic wiring of the PMQ is not even modern(who needs the only phone jack in the house to be upstairs beside the bathroom anyways?),long waits for even the most basic of repairs(no need to rush,I like the waterfall in my living room)and in the middle of nowhere where they roll the sidewalks up at 6 pm every day.
Now does it seem fair?
The Q I live in now in Wx is a palace compared to my last one(see above).If they do cut the rent the one thing they should do is put a freeze on it,suck back,reload and then redo thier calculations.Right now there are people of lower ranks with families who can't afford to buy a house,or are restricted to living on base for other reasons.
I don't think I awnsered any questions,so sorry for the rant.It's one of the things I'm passionate about.
and don't even get me started on Mr Noodles(I lived off them for awhile when my rent almost equaled my income!)

[Proud Forester]

ya, i dont live in teh Q's in Borden, but i know alot of people that do, i heard its ridiculous, rent is like $8-900, plus utilities, and they are in dispicable condition. It is stupid, and some one is making alot of money off all of this.

[armywife411]

Would you recommend moving into MQ's or looking in the local market. I've read some things in this forum that are starting to make me a bit nervous about taking one of these places sight unseen.

FYI: My husband is not in yet (waiting for offer). So, I don't have a clue where or when we'll be moving.

[Rider Pride]

There aren't great annmarielynman, but if you and your husband can't afford to buy a house, PMQ's are definately better then trying to move into an apartment with a family. Also as a new military family, there is a small advantage for you as a military wife moving into a niebourghood were all you nieghbours know and understand what you are going thru.

CFHA is attempting to make the PMQ better. If moving into a PMQ is what you have to do, take your time and look around, ask for two or three to look at and pick the one that most suits you.

[Xfire]

ya, i dont live in teh Q's in Borden, but i know alot of people that do, i heard its ridiculous, rent is like $8-900, plus utilities, and they are in dispicable condition. It is stupid, and some one is making alot of money off all of this.

damn right they are, they re-did my house before i moved up to the north side and i can say they did a poor job..

[bossi]

Maybe I'm simply getting up on the wrong side of the bed this morning, but ...
Grrrr ... I wonder about several quotes in this article
(and, why do I suspect Colin doesn't live in a crumby PMQ ... "let them eat cake"?)

http://www.canoe.ca/NewsStand/TorontoSun/News/2004/11/22/725427.html

"I've seen a number of the units in a number of the bases over the years myself and I think the rents are reasonable and fair and equitable," said Colin Crumb of Canadian Mortgage and Housing Corp ...
 but admitted that his team only looks at a few units per base before recommending rates for all homes.

Feds defend military rents
By STEPHANIE RUBEC, OTTAWA BUREAU
 
THE FEDERAL agency that recommends rent levels for military housing defended them as fair and dismissed complaints that they're too steep. "I've seen a number of the units in a number of the bases over the years myself and I think the rents are reasonable and fair and equitable," said Colin Crumb of Canadian Mortgage and Housing Corp.

"The rents are appropriate for the age of the housing."

Crumb said he stands by the rents, but admitted that his team only looks at a few units per base before recommending rates for all homes.

HOME EVALUATION

Crumb said each and every military home across Canada used to be evaluated annually, but in the early '90s the Canadian Forces Housing Agency began handpicking which homes should be looked at.

"The contract is they pick the unit, we set the fair market rent," Crumb said.

Crumb's team then hunts for rental homes in the base's surrounding community that compare in age and quality to figure out what rent military families should pay.

Some Canadian soldiers and their families have complained that they're paying too much rent for the quality of their homes, pointing to poor insulation, mould infestations and high heating costs.

[MCG]

So, CFHA gets to pick the houses that all the rents will be based on.  Is there any incentive in there for CHFA to pick the house they just put a new kitchen in and not the typical house that still has the original (plus 1 cm of paint)?

[AmmoTech90]

PMQ rent doesn't always go up...mine went down by a whole five bucks last assessment!

Just thought I'd thow that out there.

[elbarto]

For starters, long-time listener, first-time caller.

My experience with CFHA pretty much echoes everything stated earlier. However, IMO a service that CFHA has actually improved upon would be the march-out inspection.

Under the old regime, a person had one of two options;

1.   Spend two days cleaning to the point where you could perform surgery in your 'Q.   This would be followed by an inspection so brutal it would leave even the meanest RSM curled on the floor sobbing. or...

2.   Pay a fee to Housing's cleaning service (somewhere around a hundred bucks if I recall) and they would waive the inspection.   This always struck me as kind of a racket.

With CFHA the march-out inspection seemed to be a formality, lasting all of five minutes, making sure all the lights were turned out.   Much less painless.

[delavan]

I wonder if it's true and if somebody has info on this.

It might be a local thing only...

[Lone Wolf AT]

It wouldn't surprise me in the least and I doubt it is local.

[delavan]

The worst is that it would be something close to 100$.
But i don't want to spread any rumors here

[Drummy]

Hi all,

If any of you read/speak French, there is an ongoing thread about this in the French Forum. Unfortunately, I don't, so I can't tell you what they're saying. Maybe something tangible over there.   

All the best     Drummy

[delavan]

You're right Drummy ,i started this in the french section, in order to reach everybody who could answer on this!!!

[MCG]

Every November new rents take effect.  This is done across the country.

[MCG]

The worst is that it would be something close to 100$.

That is the maximum that CFHA can raise the rent in any year.  Some PMQs may go up by that much and others may not.