Topic: WAR OF 1812: UNIT RECOGNITION

[Michael O'Leary]

With regard to the War of 1812, I've been made aware that DND is working on a recognition system that will link existing units to War of 1812 units solely on the basis of geographical coincidence. Units will be given the choice of accepting the connection. It is not battle honours.

[AJFitzpatrick]

Can it be presumed that these 'recognitions' (?) are going to be exclusive to the Militia Primary Reserve?

[Pusser]

Can it be presumed that these 'recognitions' (?) are going to be exclusive to the Militia Primary Reserve?

And what Regular Force units claim lineage back that far?

[Michael O'Leary]

And what Regular Force units claim lineage back that far?

None, and neither does any Reserve regiment do so with a legitimate official claim. Any such claim is only supportable as an unofficial connection on the basis of terrain, which is the basis for the proposed recognition system.

Honours and distinctions are normally carried by Regiments, and not subdivided among battalions of regiments. To isolate individual battalions would also require the same approach be taken with Primary Reserve regiments that have more than one battalion. How this new system of recognition will be promulgated remains to be seen.

[NFLD Sapper]

Mr. O'Leary, I can think of one Regiment that "could" claim lineage and that would be the Royal Newfoundland Regiment.

[ArmyVern]

Mr. O'Leary, I can think of one Regiment that "could" claim lineage and that would be the Royal Newfoundland Regiment.

Pffft; you`re the babies of this nation. Back up 5 steps!!

[Michael O'Leary]

Mr. O'Leary, I can think of one Regiment that "could" claim lineage and that would be the Royal Newfoundland Regiment.

Claiming lineage and proving it in accordance with official requirements for lineage are two different things.  Just because any regiment has been claiming connections and convincing generations of its soldiers of their right to do so does not make it officially recognizable.

Official Lineages
Volume 3, Part 2: Infantry Regiments
THE ROYAL NEWFOUNDLAND REGIMENT

This Reserve Force regiment originated on 24 October 1949 and incorporates the following regiments

CAO 110-3, Supp Issue No. 152/49. The Royal Newfoundland Regiment cannot establish its identity with earlier units since there is no unbroken existence. It may, however, claim to inherit the traditions of early regiments which were units of the British Army, although raised in Newfoundland. A Newfoundland Regiment of Fencible Infantry was formed in 1795 and disbanded in 1802. In 1803, a new unit, the Newfoundland Fencible Infantry was formed. In 1806 it became the Royal Newfoundland Fencible Infantry and served with distinction through the War of 1812. It was disbanded in 1816.

[NFLD Sapper]

Claiming lineage and proving it in accordance with official requirements for lineage are two different things.  Just because any regiment has been claiming connections and convincing generations of its soldiers of their right to do so does not make it officially recognizable.

Official Lineages
Volume 3, Part 2: Infantry Regiments
THE ROYAL NEWFOUNDLAND REGIMENT

Seen.

[ObedientiaZelum]

Units of the Canadian Militia fought in most of these actions. One of them, the Glengarry Light Infantry Fencibles, was awarded Niagara, the first ever for a Canadian unit. Unfortunately, as no existing unit traces its lineage to the Glengarrys, no serving regiment carries this honour.

Stormont Dundas and Glengarry Highlanders?

After the surrender at Yorktown, veterans of the King's Royal Regiment of New York and the 84th Regiment of Foot (Royal Highland Emigrants), were given land on the north bank of the Saint Lawrence River so they could defend Upper Canada from the new enemy to the south. In 1804, veterans of the Glengarry Fencibles, a Highland regiment that served in Europe with the British Army, settled just north of the American Revolutionary War veterans. The first militia unit west of Montreal was organized at Cornwall in 1787 under the command of Major John Macdonnell, late of the K.R.R.N.Y. During the War of 1812, the area militia and the Glengarry Light Infantry Fencibles helped the British Army fight off the Americans. Only breaks in unit continuity in the pre-Confederation period deny the Regiment the "Niagara" battle honour and the status of oldest anglophone militia regiment in Canada.[1]

But

Claiming lineage and proving it in accordance with official requirements for lineage are two different things.

[Michael O'Leary]

Stormont Dundas and Glengarry Highlanders?

Official Lineages
Volume 3, Part 2: Infantry Regiments
STORMONT, DUNDAS AND GLENGARRY HIGHLANDERS

This Reserve Force regiment originated in Cornwall, Ontario on 3 July 1868, when the '59th "Stormont and Glengarry Battalion of Infantry"' was authorized to be formed.

MGO 3 Jul 68. Formed from six independent rifle and infantry companies authorized on the following dates: 'No. 1 Company' (1st Volunteer Militia Rifle Company at Cornwall, 22 January 1862), 'No. 2 Company' ((2nd) Volunteer Militia Rifle Company at Cornwall, 31 January 1862), 'No. 3 Company' (Volunteer Militia Company of Infantry at Cornwall, 14 November 1862), 'No. 4 Company' (Infantry Company at Lancaster, 6 July 1866), 'No. 5 Company' (Infantry Company at Williamstown, 6 July 1866), and 'No. 6 Company' (Infantry Company at Dickinson's Landing, 20 July 1866)

[ObedientiaZelum]

Thanks Michael.

Would the 59th Battalion have drawn men weapons and equipment from the Glengarry Fencibles?

[Michael O'Leary]

According to the now-defunct site Regiments.org, the origins of the 59th Battalion were as follows:

1868.07.03 59th Stormont and Glengarry Battalion of Infantry formed with HQ at Cornwall, Ont., by regimentation of four independent companies in Stormont and Glengarry counties (and four new coys raised); unofficially claims to perpetuate The King's Royal Regiment of New York (1776-1784), The Glengarry Fencibles (1783-1864), Royal Highland Emigrants, The Glengarry Fencibles [Scotland] (1794-1802), Upper Canada Militia, The Glengarry Light Infantry Fencibles (1812-1816), and The Royal Canadian Regiment of Volunteer Foot (1794-1802) 

No. 1 Company at Cornwall, raised 22 Jan. 1862 as 1st Cornwall Rifle Coy
No. 2 Company at Cornwall, raised 31 Jan. 1862 as 2nd Cornwall Rifle Coy; moved 1 May 1907 to Morrisburg
No. 3 Company at Cornwall, raised 14 Nov. 1862 as Cornwall Infantry Coy; moved 15 June 1888 to Alexandria
No. 4 Company at Lancaster, raised 1866; moved 22 June 1883 to Township of Finch
No. 5 Company at Williamstown, raised 1868; disbanded 1871?; replaced 1 Mar. 1872 by No. 5 Coy at Farran's Point, transferred from 56th Battalion; moved 1 June 1910 to Osnabruck Centre
No. 6 Company at Dickinson's Landing (mounted infantry), raised 1868; moved 24 July 1868 to Lunenburg; moved 1 Oct. 1898 to Williamstown
No. 7 Company at Dungevan, raised 21 Aug. 1868 (mounted infantry); moved 30 Dec 1875 to Athol; moved 22 Jan. 1883 to Township of Roxborough; moved 1 Mar. 1904 to Lancaster
No. 8 Company at South Finch (Vernon), transferred 1 Mar. 1880 from independent status (formerly in 43rd Battalion); disbanded 7 May 1880; new No. 8 Coy raised 1 Oct. 1899 at Maxville

If any men, weapons or equipment survived from the Glengarry Fencibles, that may have been in the specific companies with coincident recruiting areas. Note, however that some of the independent companies that were absorbed into the new 59th Stormont and Glengarry Battalion of Infantry also have dates of existence that begin before the Fencibles officially ceased to exist. Only a detailed review of pay records would confirm the existence of men on more than one unit roll over the period of change.

[Pusser]

What about the Queen's York Rangers?  They claim to have been originally spawned from Roger's Rangers (as do the US Army Rangers - that's irony).  According to their cap badge's registry with the Canadian Heraldic Authority (http://archive.gg.ca/heraldry/pub-reg/project-pic.asp?lang=e&ProjectID=426&ProjectElementID=1479), the fact that it says "1st Americans" is in deference to a Loyalist regiment formed during the Revolution.  If they cannot claim their lineage back that far, then why can they have that cap badge?   It seems to imply some form of official recognition.

[Michael O'Leary]

If they cannot claim their lineage back that far, then why can they have that cap badge?   It seems to imply some form of official recognition.

If regimental choices of badges, dress and naming was enough to "prove" lineages, then I would have expected someone to show up with the supporting paperwork some time in the past 100+ years.

Official Lineages
Volume 3, Part 1: Armour, Artillery and Field Engineer Regiments - ARMOUR REGIMENTS
THE QUEEN'S YORK RANGERS (1ST AMERICAN REGIMENT) (RCAC)

This Reserve Force regiment originated on 14 September 1866 and incorporates the following regiments.

[uptheglens]

What about the Queen's York Rangers?  They claim to have been originally spawned from Roger's Rangers (as do the US Army Rangers - that's irony).  According to their cap badge's registry with the Canadian Heraldic Authority (http://archive.gg.ca/heraldry/pub-reg/project-pic.asp?lang=e&ProjectID=426&ProjectElementID=1479), the fact that it says "1st Americans" is in deference to a Loyalist regiment formed during the Revolution.  If they cannot claim their lineage back that far, then why can they have that cap badge?   It seems to imply some form of official recognition.

By the same token, then the SD&G Highlanders shouldn't have "Glengarry Fencibles" on their cap badge either.

[Michael O'Leary]

By the same token, then the SD&G Highlanders shouldn't have "Glengarry Fencibles" on their cap badge either.

it's not a matter of "should" or "shouldn't"; each regiment bears the iconography it chose, but the icons, and the stories used to justify them, don't affect the regiments' official lineage.

[Haggis]

By the same token, then the SD&G Highlanders shouldn't have "Glengarry Fencibles" on their cap badge either.

it's not a matter of "should" or "shouldn't"; each regiment bears the iconography it chose, but the icons, and the stories used to justify them, don't affect the regiments' official lineage.

Surely, at the time that the badge was approved for wear, the iconography of the badge was verified and the entitlement to bear such iconongraphy validated?  It's a tenuous connection, but still a connection.

[Michael O'Leary]

Surely, at the time that the badge was approved for wear, the iconography of the badge was verified and the entitlement to bear such iconongraphy validated?  It's a tenuous connection, but still a connection.

Verified by who? Against what standard? The same Militia Department that let regiments choose to "brand" themselves in imitiation of various British Army regiments? The more you start to dig into the origins of such affectations, the more you start to realize that they were, probably more often than not, simply the preference of the Colonel of the day.

Yes, it's a connection - but it's not official lineage.  And that is the critical point. I am certainly not suggesting that any Regiment shouldn't maintain a connection to the units that were formed in the same geographical area as a connection to their predecessors, but respecting and honouring those connections are not the same as having an official lineage including them. We should also keep in mind that recognizing those connections based on geography isn't limited just to the War of 1812 units that form the underlying basis of this thread.

[Pusser]

All this goes to show that the naval practice of attaching battle honours to a name makes much more sense.  This is why a building in Toronto carries the honour for taking Louisburg in 1758.

[milnews.ca]

This from a news release today - highlights mine:

.... The Royal Canadian Navy, the Canadian Army and the Royal Canadian Air Force are planning to participate in several dozen community-led events over the course of the summer of 2012 through to 2015, which marks the anniversary of the final battle of the War. The majority of the activities and events will be in 2012, and most activities will take place in the Niagara-Great Lakes corridor region. Other Department of National Defence and Canadian Forces-related initiatives include:

• the presentation of a War of 1812 Commemorative Banner, approved by Queen Elizabeth II, to CF units, formations and establishments whose heritage embraces service in the War of 1812 as well as First Nations and Métis communities. Aboriginal warriors fought alongside British and Canadian soldiers and sailors in all theatres of the war and were the deciding factor in many battles. The identification of First Nations and Métis recipients is principally the work of Aboriginal Affairs and Northern Development Canada;
• participation by Royal Canadian Navy ships in 18 visits to ports in Canada and the U.S. throughout the Great Lakes, as well as in five U.S. Navy signature events in the Great Lakes and along the East coast during the summer of 2012;
• participation in several Colonial Sailor Program re-enactment events during 2012-2015, including “tall ships” used for sail training and historical demonstrations, fitted with appropriate ensigns and colours, with crews in historical dress. This program is conducted by the Department of National Defence and the Canadian Forces and will be supported by Parks Canada;
• a War of 1812 commemorative pin to be worn by all Canadian Forces members; and
• the examination of other ways to formally recognize and honour the British and Canadian units whose heritage embraces service in the War of 1812.

(....)

More from the Backgrounder:

The commemoration of the War of 1812 will provide Canadians across the country with a unique opportunity to participate in national and local initiatives to highlight this defining moment in our history. Over the next four years, the Government of Canada will invest in a series of activities that will highlight the importance of the War of 1812 and its impact on the Canada we know today.

As part of the Government of Canada’s program to commemorate the bicentennial of the War of 1812, the Department of National Defence (DND) and the Canadian Forces (CF) have developed several 1812-themed initiatives.  Some of these initiatives will include:

    Recognizing the War of 1812 heritage embraced by some CF units and the contribution made by First Nations and Métis allies to the War of 1812;
    Supporting several Colonial Sailor Program re-enactment events during 2012-2015;
    Promoting the tradition of the citizen soldier in Canada and commemorating the contributions made by regular and militia soldiers, provincial marine, and First Nations and Métis allies who participated in the War of 1812;
    Supporting the deployment of a Royal Canadian Naval ships to Canadian ports in the Great Lakes throughout the 2012-2015 commemorative period;
    Participating in a number of the United States Navy’s bicentennial commemoration efforts at select locations in the Great Lakes, East and West Coasts;
    Contributing to the War of 1812 bicentennial celebrations by conducting aircraft flypasts at selected events; and
    Participating in select, high-profile events (including re-enactments of the Battles of Stoney Creek and Queenston Heights), at which Regular and Reserve units raised in British North America made exemplary contributions to the overall end state of the War.

DND/CF War of 1812 Events and Initiatives

Commemorative Banners

The Department of National Defence has created the Canadian Forces War of 1812 Commemorative Banner. This Banner will be presented to CF units, formations, and establishments whose heritage embraces service in the defence of Canada during 1812-1815. The Commemorative Banner will also be available through Aboriginal Affairs and Northern Development Canada to those First Nations and Métis communities wanting to recognize and commemorate the contribution of First Nations and Métis allies to the defence of Canada during this same period. Once presented, the Banner may be carried, flown, or displayed throughout the 2012-2015 commemorative period. Thereafter, it may be paraded on anniversaries of events of the War of 1812 that specific units, formations, and establishments consider important to their own heritage.  The Commemorative Banner will be unveiled in the coming months.

The War Of 1812 Commemorative Pin

Canadian Heritage will be issuing a “War of 1812 Commemorative Pin” as part of the Government of Canada’s commemoration efforts. As per CF Dress Instructions, military members will be authorized to wear the pin for the duration of the commemorative period.

Royal Canadian Navy’s Colonial Sailor Program

The Royal Canadian Navy will participate in community re-enactment events.  This program is designed to raise public awareness about the maritime aspects of the colonial period through the re-enactment of historical events with actors in period costume, using period vessels.  The Colonial Sailor Program is reflective of the Provincial Marine, the Canadian-manned force which provided naval services to the colonies of Upper Canada and Lower Canada up to the War of 1812, and which formed the basis for continuing “naval militias” through the 19th Century.  The Provincial Marine was the first indigenous naval force manned by Canadians. It and its successor naval militia formations perpetuated citizen involvement in Canada’s naval defence until the passage of the Naval Service Act in 1910 established a formal Canadian navy.

The War Of 1812 Commemorative Pin

Port visits will be conducted over the next four years by Royal Canadian Navy and United States Navy vessels to Great Lakes ports, in conjunction with bicentennial events to commemorate either War of 1812 naval battles or commemorations of events at nearby battlefields.

Royal Canadian Navy’s Colonial Sailor Program

The Royal Canadian Navy will play a role in the various U.S. Signature events planned by the U.S. Navy on the East Coast including “Fleet Week.”

Canadian Army Activities

The Canadian Army’s contribution to the War of 1812 Commemorative initiative will be broken down into four main themes:

    Unit commemorations;
    Aboriginal commemorations and recognition;
    Performances; and
    Participation and/or presence.

The performances will include drill and colour party displays. Performances will take place at events including the Battle of York/Freedom of the City (Toronto) on the bicentennial of that battle on April 27, 2013.

The Canadian Army will participate and/or perform at the following main events, throughout 2012, 2013 and 2014:

    Commemoration of the declaration of war (Toronto, ON on June 1, 2012);
    the Battle of Stoney Creek (June 6, 2012);
    the Battle of Queenston Heights (October 14, 2012);
    the Battle of York (April 27-28, 2013);
    the Battle/capture of Fort George (by the USA) (May 27, 2013);
    the Battle of Chateauguay (October 7, 2013); and
    the Battle of Lundy’s Lane (July 25, 2014).

Plans for participation in these events, as well as the remaining 30-plus others currently in the planning stages, will be promulgated by the participating units/formations in the coming months or years.

[Loachman]

a War of 1812 commemorative pin to be worn by all Canadian Forces members;

Mandatory?

Another reason to avoid wearing a uniform that I despise.

[Journeyman]

I can only hope that the pin looks like the Warrior Badge, and that they can pay for all of this crap out of the monies saved in upcoming budget slashing.   

Seriously. Are lobotomies -- or spinectomies -- involved with NDHQ postings, such that no one can tell the Good Idea Faeries, "look, this is a stupid idea"?

[Danjanou]

I can only hope that the pin looks like the Warrior Badge, and that they can pay for all of this crap out of the monies saved in upcoming budget slashing.   

Seriously. Are lobotomies -- or spinectomies -- involved with NDHQ postings, such that no one can tell the Good Idea Faeries, "look, this is a stupid idea"?

Apparently so or someone just found a whole warehouse full of unissued Warrior Badges.

[Journeyman]

Peacekeeping medal, QDJM, 1812 Pin..... Pretty soon the Frontiersmen will be mocking us.   

[Danjanou]

Peacekeeping medal, QDJM, 1812 Pin..... Pretty soon the Frontiersmen will be mocking us.   

Rejected your CT to the LOF Gryphen Para Squadron did they?