Topic: Naval Officers Once Again to Wear the Executive Curl

[N. McKay]

To modify the NCM ranks would just lead to unnecessary confusion. It's already a challenge for our army and air brethren and sisteren to address us appropriately without throwing new badges into the mix. My 

I'm not a strong advocate for modifying the NCM badges either (but would be if I had the impression that there was an interest on the part of those wearing them).  However, the confusion argument holds no water with me: most armed forces in the world have element-specific rank insignia and seem to manage well enough.  Even Canada was able to make it work for the first 60 or so years of the navy's history.

[George Wallace]

I'm not a strong advocate for modifying the NCM badges either (but would be if I had the impression that there was an interest on the part of those wearing them).  However, the confusion argument holds no water with me: most armed forces in the world have element-specific rank insignia and seem to manage well enough.  Even Canada was able to make it work for the first 60 or so years of the navy's history.

Apples and oranges.

Three distinct and seperate Services vice one unified CF.




In those days the Navy had:  OS and LS
and the Air Force had:            AC and LAC
and then the Army had:         Pte and LCpl
just for starters.


Tell me this would be easy to keep straight in a "Unified" force.

[N. McKay]

Tell me this would be easy to keep straight in a "Unified" force.

Consider it told.  I know the names and insignia for all ranks in the RCN, RCAF, and pre-unification Army, not to mention the RCMP, in addition to the current CF ranks.  And I'm sure there are countless foreign service members who know all of their countries' various services' ranks.  Further, there are a good many cadets who know all three cadet rank systems (and they are quite different from one another in cadets -- but with equivalence across elements just as there would be in the CF).

If a person can learn one set of rank insignia then he or she can learn three.  People do it all over the world, including Canadian teenagers.

[ModlrMike]

If a person can learn one set of rank insignia then he or she can learn three.  People do it all over the world, including Canadian teenagers.

It should be that simple. However many years of experience has taught me that it is not so. You would not believe the number of times I've been addressed by an "other than naval rank" when I'm dressed in No1. This from WO/Sgts and even officers. If our senior pers won't or can't do it, what hope is there for the junior ones?

[George Wallace]

Why don't we just make it SIMPLE.  There is a NATO RANK TABLE that lists every rank in NATO.  We can just call all our OS/AC/PTES ------- OR1s   All our officer ranks would be OF1 through OF9 and remember that some militaries have OF10s.  Our NCMs would start at OR1 and possibly progress to OR9.  We would have WO1 through WO5.

That way we don't have to know what a Corporal of Horse is, nor a Hauptfeldwebel, nor a nadpraporčík.  Catch my drift?

[Old Sweat]

Apples and oranges.

In those days the Navy had:  OS and LS
and the Air Force had:            AC and LAC
and then the Army had:         Pte and LCpl
just for starters.


Tell me this would be easy to keep straight in a "Unified" force.

The three examples you cited, George, don't quite fit.

Leading Seaman in the RCN was the equivalent of Corporal in the army and the RCAF.

However, a Leading Aircraftsman was the same as Able Seaman in the RCN and Private (and all the others) Trained, Higher Rate in the army. The difference was that the others services did not have a distinguishing badge, while a LAC wore a horizontal propellor on each sleeve.

The other services did not have an appointment (not a rank) similar to Lance Corporal. A unit could appoint 12.5% of the privates to Lance Corporal. It was used as a stepping stone and a means of assessing developing young soldiers. If posted, a Lance Corporal reverted to Private.

Still, it would not be beyond most of us to learn more than one system of badges of rank.

[Good2Golf]

As an aside: the CMS looks much sharper with the new curl on his uniform than the CDS's army uniform 

Some folks are measured by the salad on the wrist, others by the salad on the chest... 

[George Wallace]

Thanks OS

Guess I forgot a few over the years.

[Ex-Dragoon]

Having worked for the CMS and CDS give me Walt anyday...

[CDN Aviator]

Hello I support the mesure to bring back more Tradtion to our "Navy".

Personaly i'm all for hanging people from yardarms.........let us bring that one back.

[Old Sweat]

Personaly i'm all for hanging people from yardarms.........let us bring that one back.

That works as long as you are the hanger and not the hangee!

[N. McKay]

Why don't we just make it SIMPLE.  There is a NATO RANK TABLE that lists every rank in NATO.  We can just call all our OS/AC/PTES ------- OR1s   All our officer ranks would be OF1 through OF9 and remember that some militaries have OF10s.  Our NCMs would start at OR1 and possibly progress to OR9.  We would have WO1 through WO5.

That way we don't have to know what a Corporal of Horse is, nor a Hauptfeldwebel, nor a nadpraporčík.  Catch my drift?

Would work... but sounds an awful lot like the civil service!

[MCG]

As an aside: the CMS looks much sharper with the new curl on his uniform than the CDS's army uniform 

The absolutely rediculous solution has already been identified: http://forums.army.ca/forums/index.php/topic,94678.msg950380.html#msg950380

[Chunks]

I don't see why we are even discussing this... if it's not broken, don't try to fix it... and it's clearly not broken

[Jim Seggie]

Personaly i'm all for hanging people from yardarms.........let us bring that one back.

Would that not be metrearms?

[Ex-Dragoon]

Would that not be metrearms?

LOL Nope the Navy uses yards and nautical miles for distance.

[Good2Golf]

LOL Nope the Navy uses yards and nautical miles for distance.

Good thing you added LOL, ED. I was going to tag you with a 100% sense-of-humour FAIL.  Instead, I'll keep it to just a 50% SOH FAIL. 

Jim, because it was your 'Silverback-like experience' talking, you faked me out on picking up the metricification joke...my cat was staring at me like I had a toaster for a head while I was trying to pronounce 'metrearm' out loud...for that I believe I deserve the full 100% FAIL that I was going to slam Ex-Dragoon with...FML. 

G2G

[CDN Aviator]

lol.........

"Yardarm" has nothing to do with any measurement.

 

[Old Sweat]

I don't think having a BBQ in the backmetre will catch on either.

[Pusser]

Well of course not!  The BBQ is on the quarterdeck (usually next to the gas cans)!

[Grinton]

I apologise if this has been answered somewhere else already but the search function came up lacking.  I know the direction for the curl on our shoulders.  But what is the historical significance of the direction of the curl?  Seems like it could just be logic, but since when has the name done something logical without some tradition backing it?

[Oldgateboatdriver]

While I have no idea what the real reason might be (if there even is one), couldn't it have something to do with the fact that most tailors and seamstresses are right handed?

[Pusser]

While I have no idea what the real reason might be (if there even is one), couldn't it have something to do with the fact that most tailors and seamstresses are right handed?

Except that the curls always come in pairs (except maybe on CADPAT uniforms) and there is a left and a right.  In other words, it wouldn't make any difference if the tailor was left or right handed because he would have to make one of each anyway.

The part of the curl that is on top and overlapping the other part is the "bow" and always points forward.  An officer who is wearing his curls on the wrong side is said to be "running astern."  This usually only happens when wearing shoulder boards.  One hopes that the tailor gets it right when putting them on the tunic!

[N. McKay]

One hopes that the tailor gets it right when putting them on the tunic!

It happens that mine didn't the first time...  Rather costly mistake.

[Pusser]

If the tailor gets it wrong, then you shouldn't have to pay for it, unless you gave them the wrong instructions.