Topic: BGen Ménard relieved of Afganistan Comd & other fall-outs

[Beadwindow 7]

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2010/05/29/kandahar-menard.html

Kandahar commander relieved of duties
Last Updated: Saturday, May 29, 2010 | 8:41 PM ET
The Canadian Press

Canada's top commander in Afghanistan, Brig.-Gen. Daniel Ménard, has been relieved of his duties following allegations that he was involved in an inappropriate personal relationship.

Col. Simon Hetherington said an investigation into the allegations has been launched but did not comment on the specifics.

Brig.-Gen. John Vance will assume command in the meantime.

Hetherington said Lt.-Gen. Marc Lessard made the decision to relieve Ménard of his duties after he lost confidence in Ménard's ability to command.

More to come

 

While this is pretty hard to believe, until everything is settled, General Vance is in my opinion an excellent and capable choice, having held the position before Ménard.

[Jim Seggie]

What the Big H? I bet we won't hear a lot about this.

[Occam]

Uh-oh....

[Jim Seggie]

Link:

http://www.am1150.ca/news/56/1142660

This is not good news, however, it shows the junior officers and all NCMs that no one is above the law.

[Kat Stevens]

Wait for the inevitable Michael Yawn "See?  I Told You He Was A Fuckup" column.

[Carcharodon Carcharias]

If the allegations are indeed proven, whatever happened to lead by example?

OWDU

[Jim Seggie]

It would be interesting to see what the facts are.  And who it was with.

[Technoviking]

Before we start thinking "negligent discharge" and all, let us remember that a personal relationship is not necessarily sexual in nature.

Anyway, let's let this play out before speculating.

As for BGen Vance going back in: good for him.  He is rather familiar with the area, and the various personalities in theatre. 

[Infanteer]

I've cleaned this up - let's keep it professional ladies and gentlemen.

The Staff

[Jammer]

The scenarios for this could be endless.
One of my guys couldn't keep it in his pants a few years ago...she got caught out by her hubby, claimed sexual assault (ultimately not the case), and ruined a good man's reputation.

The list could go on.

[Infanteer]

As for BGen Vance going back in: good for him.  He is rather familiar with the area, and the various personalities in theatre.

Absolutely - this is bound to cause to tumult; especially to a multinational Brigade like TFK with 4 American Battalions (one with with recently relieved CO).  This is the best choice to get a steady, experienced hand in charge for fighting season.

[PuckChaser]

BGen Dean Milner is reported by CTV to take over from BGen Vance, probably after a couple weeks to do a left seat, right seat handover.

[Technoviking]

BGen Dean Milner is reported by CTV to take over from BGen Vance, probably after a couple weeks to do a left seat, right seat handover.

That's the media reporting the bloody obvious, such as the Sun will rise in the East tomorrow.  BGen Milner was already slated to be "next".  Putting BGen Vance in there now allows BGen to conduct the RIP on target with his crew.

[triniman]

There's a article online now from the Winnipeg Sun

"Chris Lemay, a spokesman for the Canadian Expeditionary Forces Command, told QMI Agency the department of defence has a "zero tolerance on personal relationships and fraternization" with members within the forces, as well as with members of the joint task force Afghanistan."  http://www.winnipegsun.com/news/canada/2010/05/29/14187296.html

Excuse me?  Military members date, live with and marry other military members all the time.

Can someone clarify the zero tolerance statement, please.

[Jim Seggie]

There's a article online now from the Winnipeg Sun

"Chris Lemay, a spokesman for the Canadian Expeditionary Forces Command, told QMI Agency the department of defence has a "zero tolerance on personal relationships and fraternization" with members within the forces, as well as with members of the joint task force Afghanistan."  http://www.winnipegsun.com/news/canada/2010/05/29/14187296.html

Excuse me?  Military members date, live with and marry other military members all the time.

Can someone clarify the zero tolerance statement, please.

On operations or exercise those relationships are verboten.
Not in Canada during hang around the garrison stuff.

[Colin P]

Wait for the inevitable Michael Yawn "See?  I Told You He Was A Fuckup" column.

Already on his facebook with to much glee

[Infanteer]

Yon is claiming he reported the incident and that it was worth his time to get BGen Menard fired.

[Teeps74]

Yon, that incompetent jackass... Hmmm, will be funny as all hell if that blows up in Yon's face!

[Occam]

I had a good chortle at the comment Yawn made later on his FB page:

Now would be a good time to hit the Paypal. These fights are very expensive. I will keep fighting them but support is always needed.

Thank you to those who stood by me in this serious fight. As many of you know, the costs were high. Especially when I reported: The failure at Tarnak River Bridge. Negligent Discharge. Sexual affair. I am the only writer who discovered and wrote about these things. It's cold to stand alone.

Next stop: General Stanley McChrystal.

Is it news if you fabricate your own story?

[Eye In The Sky]

On operations or exercise those relationships are verboten.
Not in Canada during hang around the garrison stuff.

If I may add something...

Most people in the CF understand there is a policy and how it works.  Most people understand that means that you do NOT get involved with those who are in your direct chain of command, whether it is a subordinate, a superior or peer. 

When you are at, or close, to the top...well, very few people are not your subordinate.

[Retired AF Guy]

There's a article online now from the Winnipeg Sun

"Chris Lemay, a spokesman for the Canadian Expeditionary Forces Command, told QMI Agency the department of defence has a "zero tolerance on personal relationships and fraternization" with members within the forces, as well as with members of the joint task force Afghanistan."  http://www.winnipegsun.com/news/canada/2010/05/29/14187296.html

Excuse me?  Military members date, live with and marry other military members all the time.

Can someone clarify the zero tolerance statement, please.

There was a famous case during Canada's deployment in the Balkans (around '98 or so) where a Canadian officer (Capt?) got canned for having a relationship female Brit officer, eventhough both were single. Heck, I remember hearing that even married couple's posted overseas were not allowed to "get together" because their co-workers might get jealous.

[Neolithium]

Already on his facebook with to much glee

I never heard of him before this thread, so I took a peek at his facebook page.  Some of the support comments from random people are pretty nauseating.

[tomahawk6]

Unfortunately,all too often we see in the news that a politician resigns due to an inappropriate sexual incident.It happens with sports stars,military men and yes the guy next door. At the end of the day the one who has ruined his reputation has to wonder if the liason was worth losing everything for a fling. I used to think we in the military like knights of old held to a higher standard. Instead we seem to be no different than the civilian down the street and thats a damn shame. I knew a SGT Major of the Army who had to retire as an E8 because of his fling. Then there was the four star General who ended his career with a daliance. The one thing in common was the harm done to their own family,reputation and it besmirches all who serve. There should be zero tolerance from the top down and not after the horse has left the barn.

[Eye In The Sky]

I love how the media publishes the parts of military regulations, in this case DAOD 5019-1 that they chose to, and not the whole regulation:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/canadas-top-soldier-in-afghanistan-relieved-of-duty/article1585697/

According to military policy, fraternization “means any relationship between a CF member and a person from an enemy or belligerent force, or a CF member and a local inhabitant within a theatre of operations where CF members are deployed.”

A personal relationship, according to the same directive, “means an emotional, romantic, sexual or family relationship, including marriage or a common-law partnership or civil union, between two CF members, or a CF member and a DND employee or contractor, or a member of an allied force.”

This, of course, is a PART of DAOD 5019-1, Personal Relationships and Fraternization, link below:

http://www.admfincs.forces.gc.ca/dao-doa/5000/5019-1-eng.asp

It appears to me the way this is being published is misleading.  CF members CAN be involved with other members of the CF.  This is covered in further parts of the DAOD:

A CF member in a personal relationship with another CF member, DND employee or member of an allied force, contractor or an employee of a contractor shall not be involved, regardless of rank or authority, in the other person's:

performance assessment or reporting, including training evaluations and audits;

posting, transfer or attached posting;

individual training or education;

duties or scheduling for duties;

documents or records;

grievance process; or

release proceedings.

CF members shall notify their chain of command of any personal relationship that could compromise the objectives of this DAOD.

Perhaps it helps to put ALL applicable parts of a directive in the article.   

From the same article:

An official in Defence Minister Peter MacKay's office said the allegations against Brig-Gen. Ménard involve a member of his staff, but no further details could be provided while they are under investigation by the Canadian Forces Investigation Service.

If this allegation is found to be true, that is where the issue would lie, IAW this particular DAOD.

* this post is not for those of us familiar with CF directives, but for those who are following this thread, whether it be citizens, reporters, etc with hopes to gleem some info, comments and whatnot from serving members.

[jollyjacktar]

Shared with the usual provisions...


Canadian CO relieved of Kandahar duty
Last Updated: Saturday, May 29, 2010 | 10:51 PM ET Comments221Recommend146
CBC News
Canada's top soldier in Kandahar, Brig.-Gen. Daniel Ménard, has been relieved of command.Canada's top soldier in Kandahar, Brig.-Gen. Daniel Ménard, has been relieved of command. (Adrian Wyld/Canadian Press)

Brig.-Gen. Daniel Ménard has been relieved of command of Canadian troops in Afghanistan following allegations he was involved in an inappropriate personal relationship while in theatre.

Military sources have told CBC News that Ménard, head of Joint Task Force Kandahar, is alleged to have had an affair with a female member of his staff.

The military has strict rules forbidding its personnel from engaging in personal relationships while in theatre. They include relationships of an emotional, romantic or sexual nature.

The Defence Department issued a statement saying only that the decision was made following "allegations concerning Ménard's inappropriate conduct related to the Canadian Forces personal relationships and fraternization directives."

Ménard's spouse also serves in the Forces.

Col. Simon Hetherington said Lt.-Gen. Marc Lessard made the decision to relieve Ménard of his duties after he lost confidence in Ménard's ability to command.

An investigation into the allegations has been launched, DND said.

Hetherington has been designated acting commander in the interim. In the near future, Brig.-Gen. Jon Vance will assume command, pending the arrival of the next commander, Brig.-Gen. Dean Milner, DND said.

Earlier this week, Ménard was fined $3,500 — the stiffest fine ever levied on a soldier for mishandling a weapon.

He received the fine after pleading guilty to an offence under the National Defence Act in a court in Gatineau, Que.

The March 25 incident occurred as Ménard and his boss, chief of defence staff Gen. Walt Natynczyk, were about to board a Blackhawk helicopter at Kandahar Airfield.

Ménard said he was loading his C8 carbine, something he has done thousands of times, when it discharged. No one was injured and nothing was damaged, but the National Defence Act makes it an offence to accidentally discharge a weapon.

Ménard formally took over from Vance as top officer for Task Force Kandahar last November.
With files from The Canadian Press

Read more: http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2010/05/29/kandahar-menard.html#ixzz0pP6hLZIl