Topic: BGen Ménard relieved of Afganistan Comd & other fall-outs

[Dog]

Micheal Yon got his wish.

[Technoviking]

Eye in the Sky:
Thank you for posting that info.  I was going to do the same to emphasise my earlier point that "personal relationships" are not always sexual, and that's that.

Edit to add the following (for Dog, et al):
Now, we here may think "Curse you, Michael Yon!"; however, irrespective of anyone's opinion of him, read that last part of the respective DAOD.  I'll post it for you again:

CF members shall notify their chain of command of any personal relationship that could compromise the objectives of this DAOD.

I think I highlighted the relevant part well enough.  IT IS YOUR DUTY AS A CF MEMBER to report to your chain of command such "stuff".  If Mr. Michael Yon likes to think that he's doing the right thing because he's getting generals sacked, let him.  The fact is this: BGen Menard was no more sacked due to Michael Yon than my last promotion could be attributed to Mr. Yon.

[milnews.ca]

Holy fack!

This from the CF (PDF attached if link doesn't work):

Commander Canadian Expeditionary Force Command (CEFCOM), Lieutenant-General Marc Lessard announced today that he has relieved Brigadier-General Daniel Menard from his position as Commander Joint-Task Force Afghanistan (JTF-Afg) and has designated Colonel Simon Hetherington as Acting Commander in the interim.

LGen Lessard made this decision following allegations concerning BGen Menard’s inappropriate conduct related to the Canadian Forces Personal Relationships and Fraternization directives, which caused Commander CEFCOM to lose confidence in BGen Menard’s capacity to command.

An investigation into the circumstances related to the allegations is being launched.

In the near future, the Canadian Forces will dispatch former JTF-Afg Commander, Brigadier-General Jon Vance to Afghanistan to assume command, pending the arrival of the next JTF-Afg Commander, Brigadier-General Dean Milner.

[Petamocto]

As for BGen Vance going back in: good for him.  He is rather familiar with the area, and the various personalities in theatre.

And he's a Royal Canadian, which obviously means he's the best 

Triniman,

It's not demoralizing for a soldier in Canada to see two service people in Canada having a relationship (not groping in uniform, obviously).

However, for someone deployed overseas who is happily married but going through a very hard time being apart from his family in Canada, it would be demoralizing for him to see two people in Afghanistan carrying on a happy relationship.

[BulletMagnet]

Mr Vance has a lot of fans Royal and non Royal alike. I know he will once again do a great job as Comd RC South.


And like Petmocto says he is a Royal Canadian so on principle alone he is awesome. actually I have served a couple of times under him and I both respect and like the man; very sharp and focused on the task and a brain to match the Infantry mind set.

[Petamocto]

He certainly practices COIN like few others before him.  A lot of people could tell you what COIN was all about, but then get to Kandahar and it was all living in FOBs and doing 2-3 day ops on compounds of interest.

Gen Vance was out there doing the business and living among the people.

[Simian Turner]

Mr Vance has a lot of fans Royal and non Royal alike. I know he will once again do a great job as Comd RC South.

BGen Vance was not, nor will he be Commander RC(S) on this temporary assignment.  RC(S) is commanded by British Maj. Gen. Nick Carter.  BGen Vance will assume BGen Menard's role as Commander Task Force Kandahar.

[Petamocto]

....  BGen Vance will assume BGen Menard's role as Commander Task Force Kandahar.

And even at that, it's a very different Kandahar than it was even as late as 08-09.  As mentioned above, the amount of US and Afghan battalions is now off the charts and the Canadian BG AO has shrank to little more than a district.

[BulletMagnet]

My bad you are right, in my defense I was still drunk from last nights fight when I posted I should probably wait for sobriety before posting.

Regardless of the slip in his command position Mr Vance knows how to accomplish his mission when he was there last was the begining of the American "surge" and he is very much used to having them under his command. I think he will once again change the way we conduct operations in Kandahar for the better.

[mariomike]

"Rumours swirl after dismissal of Canadian commander in Afghanistan":
http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/Rumours+swirl+after+dismissal+Canadian+commander/3090065/story.html

[Tetragrammaton]

I've had the conversation with peers about personal relationships between members several times over the years. I know a number of happily, and some less than happily, married military couples. Let's face it, it is going to happen. It should never involve members within the same chain of command, and if a relationship develops, someone needs to be moved and moved quickly. There are also certain circumstances where it should never be tolerated, i.e. instructors and recruits.

To see so senior an officer, make so basic an error in judgment is rather disappointing, but I guess we are all too human.

[Technoviking]

To see so senior an officer, alleged to make so basic an error in judgment is rather disappointing, but I guess we are all too human.

There, fixed that for you.  Let us remember that in absence of facts, media like to report rumours.  We don't.  We stick to facts.


(as Mentor)

[Tetragrammaton]

True. Let's hope.

[KevinB]

Two Negligent Discharged in one tour...

 

His wife is going to take him to the cleaners.

[Petamocto]

Two Negligent Discharged in one tour...

  Ba dum, bum...giggidy giggidy.  Two points for the blague du jour!

[Jammer]

There, fixed that for you.  Let us remember that in absence of facts, media like to report rumours.  We don't.  We stick to facts.


(as Mentor)

Agreed.
Speculation abounds.

[tomahawk6]

TV the only fact released is that BG Menard was relieved. The cause is the subject of speculation. Frankly his ND should have been enough to have him relieved  if my reading of previous ND cases that were prosecuted. In fact he admitted guilt and yet he remained in command. Yet an allegation of violating fraternization gets Menard relieved. Double standard ?

[Petamocto]

...Yet an allegation of violating fraternization gets Menard relieved. Double standard ?

Not necessarily.  As per "Duty With Discernment", the CF does not have a Zero Fault mentality and understands that nobody is infallible.  People are allowed to make a mistake that results in something bad happening (ND), but they are not allowed to do wrong.

Having an ND, even if argued as careless, is still at the end of the day not a malicious act brought about by bad character/leadership.

Added - And as posted below, one has to assume that his bosses are fully informed and would not do something as significant as this on a whim.  CF rules of basic conflict resolution in fact state that the accused must remain in position until reasonable evidence exists that wrongdoing has taken place (the accuser being the one to get moved).

[Michael O'Leary]

Yet an allegation of violating fraternization gets Menard relieved. Double standard ?

Or, possibly, senior commanders have further information which has not been shared with the media.

[Kat Stevens]

Or it could be as simple as something involving a camel and a straw.

[tomahawk6]

An allegation of a violation of Military Law is enough to cause relief. The purpose of that is to prevent the accused from interfering with the investigation. So I dont have a problem with Menards relief. I also agree that an ND is normally non-judicial punishment - unless someone is wounded or killed by the ND. Maybe under CF rules ND's are treated as a court martial offense ?

[the 48th regulator]

Really.  ND's, and Shagging.

As much as I would love him for being "Human", He would lay the law to crucify anyone  else doing the same.  Totally unacceptable.

We have a Colonel, of the same age and disposition in life, paying the ultimate sacrifice doing their job, and this momo is using the tour as jaunt.

dileas

tess

 

[recceguy]

Folks. let's attempt to retain a modicum of professionalism until the true statement of facts are released.

Your cooperation is appreciated, lest we see ourselves quoted in print again.

Milnet.ca Staff

[Petamocto]

... Maybe under CF rules ND's are treated as a court martial offense ?

It's rank-dependent.  Over a certain rank it's automatically CM.

Most mere mortals get the choice of Summary Trial (quick and relatively painless) or CM (long, drawn out, more powers of punishment).

[Rogo]

Really.  ND's, and Shagging.

As much as I would love him for being "Human", He would lay the law to crucify anyone  else doing the same.  Totally unacceptable.

We have a Colonel, of the same age and disposition in life, paying the ultimate sacrifice doing their job, and this momo is using the tour as jaunt.

dileas

tess

All Alleged.....however if it turns out to be exactly that I will share your feeling 110%