Topic: Military sterotypes?

[EastVan]

Hi! first time post here (hope this is in the right category).

So, a couple months ago I had revealed to my mother and step dad that I had plans to work in the army, more specifically the infantry(I'm 17 now). This is something I had always seen myself doing, ever since I was little.

Their response was not at all what I expected. They weren't proud, concerned for my safety, or even interested as to why I had made this decision. The first thing that came out of my mother's mouth was "People who join the military generally aren't very smart. What followed soon after were rants on how I should go to culinary school (I don't cook, I work in a restaurant and it sucks!), how soldiers are enforcers of American foreign policy, how I could be doing better things with my life and how the military will brainwash me (I found this kind of ironic).

I didn't expect their responses to be overwhelmingly positive, but I was surprised by this. I guess they want me to lead a 'normal' life. It got me wondering though, what is with the negative stigma attached to the Canadian Military? Everyone thinks I will be killed immediately, be brainwashed, or that I'm wasting time that could be spent in college. And can someone shed light on how many 'dumb' people are actually in the infantry?

[lacqui]

I don't find that there are any more "dumb" people in the military than there are in civilian life.  I can't speak much for the infantry (I'm navy), but even going by what I saw in recruit school, the infanteers were far from stupid.

There are always those who join because they want to fight (as one member of my BMQ platoon put it, "I want to kill me an Ay-rab"), but it is my understanding that this type gets weeded out; most of our people don't want to fight, but rather finish their mission and get home safely.  And that takes alot of brains, attention to detail, etc that you won't see in many civilian jobs.

[Nerf herder]

Just point out the fact that perhaps they should come on this site and actually do a bit of research before they talk about something that they do not know much about.

They were probably in a defensive mode and the topic brought up some of their own personal feelings of Canadian foreign policy and their own stereotype of what a person in the CF or how the service really is.

Funny thing is the CF is a direct reflection of Canadian society......so they must have met a lot of people who generally weren't very smart in their lifetime.

I actually have had quite a few troops in my unit, among previous ones as well, who not only completed their grade 12/13 but pursued a University degree and accomplished that goal. A number of them have a masters and a couple had their PhD.

These were NCOs....not Officers, so the stereotype of the recruit not being very smart is kinda blown right out of the water.

Hell, we had an Officer who actually designed a piece of equipment that is currently on the ISS! Why he's in the Military I have no idea....I think it's the challenge.

Well, I have to get back to breaking rocks before the 11am mind washing session....er....church.

Regards

[Antoine]

how soldiers are enforcers of American foreign policy

US is our neighbors and luckily enough they are a democracy and an important business partner.

There is a war that American are fighting but we are not directly involved in, as well as another one that occurred in the late sixties. Check out news papers and history books for the answers.

No military to protect our interest = no guarantee of peace and democracy in Canada, no high standard of life here, neither prosperity and so on. ...Do they think that all the freedom and wealth we get here come free. Forgot that 2/3 of the planet is in war and poverty?

The Captain that interviewed me was far from being stupid. We talked about a lot of serious and challenging stuff other than : Are you ready to kill, do you like to destroy and follow orders without critical thinking,..... 

On a more positive note, what you can do is dig up all the info on the CF training which you going to realize is not only how to aim and shoot. Then show to your parents how you are going to be trained as a professional and mature Canadian citizen. Show them that the CF is strong on education and you can up grade yours with the CF help.

[Nerf herder]

Another thing is now Snr NCOs must start planning on taking university courses if they ever want to make it to the dizzy heights of being an RSM. I believe it either is, or will soon be, a prerequisite to attain that position.

So there goes the stereotype of the crusty old SSM/ CSM with a grade 8 edumication.

Regards

[Journeyman]

And can someone shed light on how many 'dumb' people are actually in the infantry?

At last count there were 28 of us, so statistically you should be all right.

[northernboy_24]

There are always those who join because they want to fight (as one member of my BMQ platoon put it, "I want to kill me an Ay-rab"),

I really hope that person got weeded out on your platoon as well.

[Petamocto]

I think the stereotype is based on some truth of how some soldiers used to be in generations past.

It used to be that the military was often a third choice type of job, as in you had lost all hope of any other employment and it was either the Army or nothing because you had dropped out of high school.

In fact, for a while it was even jail or the Army.

Those days are long gone though, and the ranks are filled with people who are in the Army because they chose this as their career.

Also, the education rates are higher than ever before.  When I was a platoon commander around 2005, it was the exception to not have high school and I can't even think of one in the platoon who didn't.  But it didn't stop there though, there were troops with degrees, too...and I'm not talking Sgts+ but Privates and Corporals who just didn't want to go the officer path.

I think due to the internet, the average person just has access to a lot more information than ever before too, but that's not just limited to soldiers.

To wrap this up, it's not that what your parents feel isn't based on some truth, but the problem is that their idea of a soldier is based on information from several decades ago.  Things have changed drastically since then.

[Old Sweat]

As Petamocto said, these stereotypes go back generations. I would not however agree with all his comments about the troops of a generation or two back. It is true many were in the army because they had little other choice, but that was in an era of a very skimpy social safety net and much lower average education in the public at large and not just the CF.

As for the choice between jail and the forces, the real bad actors did not get that option. Even so, I don't recall too many guys who came that route, popular myths not withstanding.

My wife enjoys telling people that my mother told me after I had enlisted that I had screwed my life and no good girl would ever go out with me. Roll with it and don't let the critics get you down. In a few years when you go back to your old neighborhood, your buds whom you used to hang out with, complaining about life in general, will still be hanging out, complaining about the same old same old. You, on the other hand, will have seen a lot of Canada and probably a bit of the word to boot.

[ArmyRick]

Eastvan,

The comments your parents made were out of ignorance. In my opinion, they're prejudice. The advice above is good. Join, live the adventure (their are good times and bad) and beleive me, you will not regret it.

As someone said, drop by the old neighbourhood and watch alot of your other people you know just going through the motions in life (drones?) while you are living it.

BTW, I only have high school education but through PD in the military and some self teaching I have had university proffessors give me some good remarks about the work I produce. Hows that for us "not generally smart infantry types"?

[ObedientiaZelum]

Of course you will be brainwashed, it's the military. Surprise. Except we call it conditioning or training.

And tell your parents if they disrespect you like that again you will report them to homeland security for political re-education.

[fischer10]

Everyone thinks I will be killed immediately, be brainwashed, or that I'm wasting time that could be spent in college. And can someone shed light on how many 'dumb' people are actually in the infantry?

I got this exact reaction from everyone as well, except my parents. I have completed my Gr. 12 and have attended the university of Waterloo for Mechanical Engineering - which was horribly boring (Sit in class from 8-5, go home and do more school work until 11 and so on.) I dropped out of that and attended University of Manitoba and took some random classes to find something I liked - it still was not enough. There was no challenge to it, no physical demand along side the mental. I joined the military and first question from everyone was "Oh your going in for Officer and getting them to pay for your school?" Which I was not doing at all, I joined Combat Arms. Once people heard that it was all "Oh your going to die/Are you suicidal/He wants to die/He's throwing his life away/You're smart why would you do that?"

No one understands that it takes more then a 'dumb brute' to do many jobs in the CF and on top of that some jobs require you to have education. As said above, the CF promote education (my recruiter tried to get me to go in for officer, they are short on them haha). Given some of the jobs wont have civilian application, but none the less it is not a waste or death wish.

I've been on this site since February and met some military people and they are far from "dumb".  Some may be harda**'s but thats about all I have seen haha.

[EpicBeardedMan]

It's funny how people lean more towards stupidity when someone joines the armed forces rather than courage.

[George Wallace]

Ah!  Stereotypes.  Gotta love em.

Many of the older members of this site can remember the days when people thought that members of the Canadian Forces didn't have to pay Taxes, lived in their houses (PMQs) for free, and all that kind of stuff.  None of it was true, but the myths still existed.

[medicineman]

It's funny how people lean more towards stupidity when someone joines the armed forces rather than courage.

Speaking of stereotypes, the parents' comments could have alot to do with where the OP is from - East Vancouver - you know what us left coasters are like, morally/mentally superior and such because of the granola we eat and other substances we inhale, trees we hug and whales we save  .

MM

[Petamocto]

Speaking of stereotypes, the parents' comments could have alot to do with where the OP is from - East Vancouver - you know what us left coasters are like, morally/mentally superior and such because of the granola we eat and other substances we inhale, trees we hug and whales we save  .

Compared to Maritimers who love the military and inhale Testors model glue, cut down trees, and kill bear/moose/deer/baby seals?

[medicineman]

Essentially polar opposites, yes.

MM

[Petamocto]

MM,

Maybe that's why Ontario in the middle votes the way they do, because they like to sit on the fence and not make decisions about which way to go on any issue.

[Michael O'Leary]

Essentially polar opposites, yes.

MM

Geographically speaking, wouldn't that be "coastal opposites"?   

[medicineman]

Geographically speaking, wouldn't that be "coastal opposites"?   

I guess you got me there .

MM

[stealthylizard]

While I was in high school, as a reservist, and there was quite a bit of a delay getting a CT to the regs.  My mom actually called up a Marine recruiting centre in the US to see if I could enlist down there.  This was back in about 1996.  Move ahead about 10 years, and she was concerned about me fighting in an American war, thinking I would be going to Iraq, and trying to convince me to go to school to get a trade instead, lol.  Now she looks at the job market and realizes maybe I did make the right decision, and is trying to persuade me to maybe stick with the military as a career, just in something outside of the infantry.

[Technoviking]

At last count there were 28 of us, so statistically you should be all right.

Well played, sir.  Well played!

[Alea]

EastVan,

I'm 39 years old. Woman. French from France and have lived in Canada for the past 23 years. Enough time to develop a strong feeling of "it's-my-country-don't-touch-it" type.

When I was just a bit older than you, 20 years old, I already was interested in joining. What is it that stopped me at the time? Prejudices against women in the army and the way people were thinking about the army! So I didn't have the courage to enroll.
Although it was in the back of my head since that time, I let too much time go by and meanwhile, my strong feeling of "it's-my-country-don't-touch-it" was just getting stronger.

Finally, more than a year ago, I decided to make the big step and now am in the process of joining. But when I announced my decision to people around me, I got to hear the most frightening/foolish things a woman wants to hear:
"What? Women get rapped in the army"
"You are going to be with people who can't even sign their names"
"You are to old for this and deserve better". 
Someone even told me this: "You are French. It's not your country!"
Lately I was told by an ignorant person: "To me the Canadian Army is absurd and senseless because in Kandahar they eat lobsters every Thursday and have nothing else to do than play cards".

I'm fortunate to have military friends ranging from private to a Captain in Infantry and a senior officer. They are all educated. They've all travelled the world wether on missions or for vacations and they are very far from being ignorants.

In taking the decision to join the CF, you will find out 2 things:
1) You know very little about the Canadian Army and will want to know more and more.
2) Unfortunately, civilians know very little about the reality of the CF, its role, its rules and ethics.

If you could print some of the threads on here and show them to your parents, they would see that the members of this forum are educated, intelligent and can old conversations about just anything from politics to religion.

You could also print Parkie's story and have people around you read it in the hope that they remember why, today, us and them may live in a free country and to what cost we may live in this free country.
http://forums.army.ca/forums/index.php/topic,96107.0.html

And last but not least, in the end, it is your choice of life. As long as you feel at peace with it. So it be!

Take care 
Alea

[Pusser]

Hmmm.  Not a normal life?  As I look around me at my house in a nice neighbourhood, with a two-car garage (with two cars even), a pool outback, a wife, children, a dog and a cat, I'm thinking if this isn't normal then perhaps "normal" isn't what I want!  I also reflect back on the last 28 years and think of all the really cool things I've been able to do.  I've been on the bottom of the ocean, seen a good chunk of the world and been allowed to blow stuff up.  I've even been able to share some of these experiences with my family (not the blowing stuff up part - much to the chagrin of my kids).  I have no regrets and my parents couldn't be prouder.  What would your parents prefer - that you go off and be a part of something that is bigger than yourself and make a difference, or move home periodically everytime your latest McJob fails?

There is no shortage of idiots in the military, but they generally don't last very long.  We truly do try to make sure that they DON'T hurt anyone (including themselves) before we weed them out.

[Bruce Monkhouse]

When my train pulled out of Guelph all those years ago I'm sure I caught a glimpse of my Parent's tap dancing on the platform.....................and when I think of what life experience/ discipline/ maturity[ stop laughing Vern]/ leadership skills I received from being in the military I do believe they should have had a complete hoe-down.

Your parents are wrong. Full stop.