Topic: Harper wants a pretty white plane ...

[RangerBoy]

Micromanaging from the PMO (again) ... 

Prime Minister's Office wins tug of war over VIP aircraft: documents
By Dean Beeby
THE CANADIAN PRESS
OTTAWA -- Prime Minister Stephen Harper has been locked in a lengthy tug of war with his defence minister over the future of the military's VIP Airbus, newly disclosed documents show.
Peter MacKay has repeatedly rejected requests from the prime minister's staff to have the Airbus painted a civilian white and red instead of its current military grey.
MacKay and senior officers argue that the white colour scheme would be too visible whenever the passenger jet is sent on troop and cargo missions to risky locales, as happens now when the aircraft is not needed by the prime minister or the Governor General.
Senior government officials say no final decision has been made. But internal emails indicate the Privy Council Office -- Harper's own department -- in fact ordered the military last September to arrange for the new paint job at the next scheduled maintenance.

Full story here ...
http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/TopStories/20110213/Harper-VIP-Airbus-11-0213/

[medicineman]

Wonder how much of this is some pretentious dweeb in the PMO vs the actual PM?

MM

[milnews.ca]

Wonder how much of this is some pretentious dweeb in the PMO vs the actual PM?

MM

Good point - if you believe the paper trail mentioned, 2 years of political and bureaucratic wrestling over this?

[RangerBoy]

On the one hand, who knows?
On the other, I find it hard to believe that any of the PMO/PCO weinies would be taking on a Minister like this without the PM's at least tacit approval.
Hopefully, they'll be the ones riding the big white target into KAF ...

[Strike]

On the one hand, who knows?
On the other, I find it hard to believe that any of the PMO/PCO weinies would be taking on a Minister like this without the PM's at least tacit approval.
Hopefully, they'll be the ones riding the big white target into KAF ...

Okay, now THAT's funny.  I don't find it unlikely at all.

[MJP]

Hopefully, they'll be the ones riding the big white target into KAF ...

That is a red herring the airbuses don't fly into KAF in any case.


I somehow don't find it strange that we as a G8 nation would want to have a plane painted to represent Canada.  A quick perusal of wikepedia shows that many nations have aircraft painted to showcase and highlight their respective country.  Why should we be any different?

[CDN Aviator]

Why should we be any different?

Alot of country have dedicated presidential aircrafts, we do not.

[MJP]

Alot of country have dedicated presidential aircrafts, we do not.

So what?   The colour on the aircraft hardly detracts from its performance while conducting other missions.

[CDN Aviator]

So what?   The colour on the aircraft hardly detracts from its performance while conducting other missions.

Well, as a matter of fact, yes it does. Hence why we stopped painting our aircraft white with the red "lightning bolt" in the first place.

[Strike]

That is a red herring the airbuses don't fly into KAF in any case.


I somehow don't find it strange that we as a G8 nation would want to have a plane painted to represent Canada.  A quick perusal of wikepedia shows that many nations have aircraft painted to showcase and highlight their respective country.  Why should we be any different?

We already have pax aircraft that fit that bill.  They already have a huge honkin' CANADA and Cdn Air Force Roundel on the side.  It may be subdued, but only in colour.  Still pretty easy to see.

[MJP]

Well, as a matter of fact, yes it does. Hence why we stopped painting our aircraft white with the red "lightning bolt" in the first place.

Please expand, I am not fully understanding what you are saying.

[CDN Aviator]

Please expand, I am not fully understanding what you are saying.

There is more to aircraft performance than how fast it flies. Big white airplanes are easy to see (track, target....) on certain systems due to certain inherent properties.

[MJP]

There is more to aircraft performance than how fast it flies. Big white airplanes are easy to see (track, target....) on certain systems due to certain inherent properties.

Ack.  I see what you are talking about now and I agree white things are easy to see and hit.  However I am saying that having a well painted plane that flies our PM and the like around doesn't seem that big of a deal.  Lots of other countries have big white easy to hit planes that do the same.

[CDN Aviator]

  Lots of other countries have big white easy to hit planes that do the same.

Do these countries use them for regular airlift missions when the boss isnt using it ??


Are US VIPs flying into KAF on VC-25s ?

[GAP]

The PM attends how many international conferences/meetings in the course of the year? Our colors/maple leaf should stand out.

[George Wallace]

Micromanaging from the PMO (again) ... 

Prime Minister's Office wins tug of war over VIP aircraft: documents
By Dean Beeby
THE CANADIAN PRESS
OTTAWA -- Prime Minister Stephen Harper has been locked in a lengthy tug of war with his defence minister over the future of the military's VIP Airbus, newly disclosed documents show.
Peter MacKay has repeatedly rejected requests from the prime minister's staff to have the Airbus painted a civilian white and red instead of its current military grey.
MacKay and senior officers argue that the white colour scheme would be too visible whenever the passenger jet is sent on troop and cargo missions to risky locales, as happens now when the aircraft is not needed by the prime minister or the Governor General.
Senior government officials say no final decision has been made. But internal emails indicate the Privy Council Office -- Harper's own department -- in fact ordered the military last September to arrange for the new paint job at the next scheduled maintenance.

Full story here ...
http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/TopStories/20110213/Harper-VIP-Airbus-11-0213/

I don't see a problem with this, as long as it is the PMO and the PCO who fund the numerous paint jobs and not DND.  If they want it, they should pay the bill.  Too easy.

[HavokFour]

I present to you, a compromise:

A removable red maple leaf that can be taken on and off. On when the PM or the GG are on board, and off when they're not.

[SherH2A]

This is silly. The primary mission is the CF's needs not the PM's occasional needs. Yes a nice white aircraft with Canadian insignia would be nice but why does it need to be an Airbus.

Why not something like a Bombardier Global 8000, it has the range 7900 nautical miles, speed .85 mach and will use 6000 feet runways. It does transport 8 passengers with an office and stateroom. We could purchase 3, 1 for the PM, 1 for the GG, and 1 for backup. When the PM needs more seats for staff and reporters, let them lease a plane from Air Canada.

[MJP]

Do these countries use them for regular airlift missions when the boss isnt using it ??


Are US VIPs flying into KAF on VC-25s ?

I don't know about other countries and I really don't care.  I hardly think that the sustainment flights undertaken are into high risk locales that many other big white easy to hit planes don't already fly into.

Are US VIPs flying into KAF on VC-25s ?

I don't know about KAF but there was one big white & blue easy to hit VC-25 (or similar American airlift, I'll admit civvy AC ID is not my strong point) sitting on the tarmac in Kabul in 2004 when I arrived in country. 

[Strike]

I present to you, a compromise:

A removable red maple leaf that can be taken on and off. On when the PM or the GG are on board, and off when they're not.

As good of an idea as that thought is when we talk about cars and buses, I'd be surprised if one could be manufactured for a plane that would stay on during flight.

As for the justification, then perhaps the PCO and PMO should see what the effect on operations would be to remove the use of that white Airbus because of its inability to fly to certain locations (read: increased risk to crew and pax because of its identification as the PMs plane).

[Zoomie]

Why not something like a Bombardier Global 8000, it has the range 7900 nautical miles, speed .85 mach and will use 6000 feet runways. It does transport 8 passengers with an office and stateroom. We could purchase 3, 1 for the PM, 1 for the GG, and 1 for backup.

We have a fleet of Challengers for this very task.  Unlike the Polaris aircraft, these aircraft might actually see the poo-pond.

[GAP]

If we have Challengers for this purpose, why are they using an Airbus?

[benny88]

I present to you, a compromise:

A removable red maple leaf that can be taken on and off. On when the PM or the GG are on board, and off when they're not.

Made of what? Removable how? The logistics are a bit more complicated than a magnet when the vehicle goes 0.8 Mach.

[SherH2A]

If we have Challengers for this purpose, why are they using an Airbus?

Bureacratic bloat. Do you think when the PM travels that he can be without his staff, PR, support staff, security, press etc. Challengers don't have that much space, of course they could use Air Canada for transport, if they want a honking big Airbus let them lease it for the mission

[recceguy]

Why are you people getting so upset, and carried away about a friggin' paintjob? Who cares? If it even provides the most minutae of protection, to whoever is flying in it, it's worth it.

I want no part of a country, or political party, that fights an upcoming election based on the colour of our planes, and anyone that votes on that criteria is a ******' moron and doesn't deserve to be given the pencil to mark the circle.