Topic: Harper wants a pretty white plane ...

[CDN Aviator]

lol.........I wasnt getting "snoty" at all......

Fair enough, my apologies.

Do you have any pictures of the configuration that 15003 was in when you did that training ?

I ask because i know for a fact that 04 and 05 have been modified for AAR ( i was parked next to both on 2 occasions......and pictures of them are widely available with clear serials on them) and Canada only contracted for 2 to be modified. No official DND site states that a third was modified and i cannot even locate a non-official site that indicates this would have been done. Thus, to me its a case of a) You were not on 15003 or b) The aircraft was in some other configuration.

[captloadie]

I can say that Cdn Aviator is correct in his comments. Having flown on the aircraft in question as crew, and lived through the reconfiguring to the AAR role, it is fairly simple to tell which aircraft have been modified. On the inside, just as you enter the upper cargo area, there will be a refueling console in a locked cabinet, with rails on the floor to install the seats. The last I had heard, 001, 002, and 003 were all still in full pax config and although 004 and 005 were in combi/AAR config, they were only being used in an AAR role. There has been some recent discussions on converting 003 back to a combi configuration, so that we would have one VIP config, one gull pax config, one combi config, and two AAR configs. 

[dapaterson]

Of course, given the hours we've put on the fleet in recent years, might it be a better idea to find a "newer" second-hand Airbus, and configure it for the VIP role?  It would relieve some of the pressure on the fleet.

[just me...]

I didnt obtain any pictures but I know it was 03...........half the seats, large forward cargo area..plus I was down in the avionics section and walked into the front belly cargo area and saw the big fuel tank.  Sorry I cant be anymore help gents.  Only reason why I know it was 03 is we were suppose to do our work on 01 as most our work will be on that frame anyways, but it wasn't around and 02 was having engine work done.

[CDN Aviator]

I didnt obtain any pictures but I know it was 03...........half the seats, large forward cargo area..plus I was down in the avionics section and walked into the front belly cargo area and saw the big fuel tank. 

Well, 15003 is not a tanker so it may have been some other configuration. On the CC-150 tankers, IIRC, the additional fuel tanks are mounted in mid-fuselage, sandwiching the main center tank.

[Haletown]

"walked into the front belly cargo area and saw the big fuel tank. "

hmmmmmm    . . . has anyone reported any missing beer at Trenton?  If so we may have discovered how they are getting the goods off base.

[Gramps]

I can say with 100 percent certainty that 03 is not configured as a tanker, I was on it today.

[just me...]

can they change the config's in 2 weeks?...........anyways.  I guess it really doesnt matter.  What were we originally talking about with this thread anyways?.............lol

[WingsofFury]

Personally, I think the grey looks amazing in some nice light - no reason to change it at all.

[CDN Aviator]

can they change the config's in 2 weeks

Not on 03.

Personally, I think the grey looks amazing in some nice light - no reason to change it at all.

i do like the grey as well. Nice photo.

[WingsofFury]

i do like the grey as well. Nice photo.

Thanks!

[milnews.ca]

More on this - voices from an unnamed "top government official" - linked to the royal visit - highlights mine:

Will and Kate's visit is adding ammunition to a campaign by the prime minister's office to repaint Canada's military-looking VIP plane.

Images of their Royal Highnesses the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge boarding the "drab" looking grey aircraft are feeding calls from some corners to paint the Airbus A310 — designated as a CC-150 Polaris — in a scheme that would make the country proud.

"It is drab, it's very military, it's utilitarian. I suppose for security purposes it's a good colouring in that in blends into the background but it terms of flying the flag for Canada, of showing when the prime minister, the governor general or members of the royal family represent us abroad . . . it's a bit underwhelming," said Matthew Rowe, a spokesperson for the Monarchist League of Canada. "The end result is it just reflects poorly on the country."

A top government official said his first thought watching Prince William and his new bride board Canada's airplane for their first foreign trip was that it looked as if they were boarding an aircraft "belonging to a third-world country."

The Prime Minister's office (PMO) has tried for at least three years to get the Department of National Defence to change the paint scheme on CC-150 Polaris 001, a plane normally used to transport the Prime Minister.

The department was recently tasked with coming up with different possible red and white colour schemes to use on the plane — in a similar style as was used on its precursor, the Boeing 707 which was painted white with a red line and Government of Canada logo and flag.

Prime Minister Stephen Harper's spokesman Dimitri Soudas told Postmedia Monday that "no decision has been made" about changing the aircraft's colour but "any change would only be contemplated if it were cost neutral." ....

Source:  Postmedia News, 4 Jul 11

[Michael O'Leary]

Boeing 707 which was painted white with a red line and Government of Canada logo and flag.

Oh yes, because we all know how patriotically inspiring standard bureaucratic branding can be.   

If we're going to do this, can we at least have an open design competition without some nameless "top government official" narrowing the choices to some weaselly common look and feel blandness?

[recceguy]

The department was recently tasked with coming up with different possible red and white colour schemes to use on the plane — in a similar style as was used on its precursor, the Boeing 707 which was painted white with a red line and Government of Canada logo and flag.

The last thing we need is another symbol that looks like that great purveyor of corporate greed, crass incompetent management and uncaring, loathsome employees. A company so totally devoid of the GAF factor, Air Canada.

I like Michael's idea. An open competition would cost little in the great scheme of things, could give us a design envied around the world and actually be a bit of fun.

[milnews.ca]

If we're going to do this, can we at least have an open design competition without some nameless "top government official" narrowing the choices to some weaselly common look and feel blandness?

I like Michael's idea. An open competition would cost little in the great scheme of things, could give us a design envied around the world and actually be a bit of fun.

Who would judge?  CF?  Panel of civilians & military?

ANYTHING but MERX, please....

[Michael O'Leary]

Who would judge?  CF?  Panel of civilians & military?

ANYTHING but MERX, please....

Let it be judged by all the recipients of the Order of Canada.

List of Companions of the Order of Canada

Up to 15 Companions are appointed each year, with a limit of 165 living Companions at any given time.  ...  As of June 14, 2010, there were 164 living Companions (including 4 honorary).

[57Chevy]

Nice array of carefully chosen words and paraphrases aimed at trying to coax the general public into demanding change:

                                             "the "drab" looking grey aircraft"
                                             "It is drab, it's very military, it's utilitarian"
                                             "it just reflects poorly on the country.
                                             "it's a bit underwhelming,"
                                             "belonging to a third world country"


Nice try but I don't buy it.

Mr. MacKay clearly pointed out that it has been painted in a colour scheme appropriate for its multi-role nature.

The Aircraft looks great just the way it is, and changing it is never actually "cost neutral" anyway.

so, from reply #44:

           ...press rewind and watch the tape. The answer is the same. It is not happening.

And where the heck is "some corners" located.   

[dapaterson]

Nice array of carefully chosen words and paraphrases aimed at trying to coax the general public into demanding change:

                                             "the "drab" looking grey aircraft"
                                             "It is drab, it's very military, it's utilitarian"
                                             "it just reflects poorly on the country.
                                             "it's a bit underwhelming,"
                                             "belonging to a third world country"


Nice try but I don't buy it.

Mr. MacKay clearly pointed out that it has been painted in a colour scheme appropriate for its multi-role nature.

The Aircraft looks great just the way it is, and changing it is never actually "cost neutral" anyway.

so, from reply #44:

           ...press rewind and watch the tape. The answer is the same. It is not happening.

And where the heck is "some corners" located.   

Aircraft do require periodic repainting.  If a change is done when the palne is already shceduled for repainting it would be more or less cost neutral.

However, in this instance, we are seeing increased demand for airlift in non-VIP situations.  Perhaps the CF should be looking to increase the size of its fleet by acquiring some gently used aircraft to augment the Polaris fleet.  Having more tails available might also permit having one or two painted white (or Air Force (Tory?) Blue) and still maintain sufficient numbers in tactical colours.

[Thucydides]

For a really high LCF, paint a fake cockpit on the underside......

[dapaterson]

For a really high LCF, paint a fake cockpit on the underside......

Nah, can you imagine a CF-18 pilot in command of a Polaris?  I don't think Airbuses are certified for barrel rolls...

On the other hand, we'd get more operational use out of 65 new Airbuses than 65 F-35s...  Just compare the log books of Herc pilots with Hornet pilots...

[Jim Seggie]

For a really high LCF, paint a fake cockpit on the underside......

Or maybe paint it AridPat.............just sayin...

[Gronk]

Nice array of carefully chosen words and paraphrases aimed at trying to coax the general public into demanding change:

                                             "the "drab" looking grey aircraft"
                                             "It is drab, it's very military, it's utilitarian"
                                             "it just reflects poorly on the country.
                                             "it's a bit underwhelming,"
                                             "belonging to a third world country"


Nice try but I don't buy it.

Mr. MacKay clearly pointed out that it has been painted in a colour scheme appropriate for its multi-role nature.

The Aircraft looks great just the way it is, and changing it is never actually "cost neutral" anyway.

so, from reply #44:

           ...press rewind and watch the tape. The answer is the same. It is not happening.

And where the heck is "some corners" located.   

[milnews.ca]

Aircraft do require periodic repainting.  If a change is done when the plane is already scheduled for repainting it would be more or less cost neutral.

Funny you should mention that - further along the lines of "only the peons have to follow standardized branding rules", if the Huffington Post is to be believed (highlights mine)....

After battling with the Department of National Defence over the right to repaint his airbus red and white, The Huffington Post has learned Prime Minister Stephen Harper is getting his way.

The Prime Minister's grey aircraft, an Airbus A-310, which is designated as a CC-150 Polaris, has been slotted for a fresh paint job in August 2013 and sketches of the new design are currently being tossed around the Department Of National Defence, the Privy Council Office and the Prime Minister's Office.

In fact, the first batch of drawings has already been nixed by political officials.

An early sketch by Jim Belliveau, obtained under Access to Information legislation, shows a colourful plane with native art on the tail. One side of the plane would have represented western Canada and the other side eastern Canada, but officials rejected the concept. Their response, however, hasn't discouraged Belliveau, the graphic designer at 410 Tactical Fighter Squadron at the Royal Canadian Air Forces' base 4 Wing Cold Lake in Alberta.

"As an artist being involved in this is a lot of fun," the man whose drawing will likely be emblazoned on the Prime Minister's aircraft for years to come told HuffPost.

Since most of the public's attention is focused on one side of the plane, the side with the door, officials are being cautious to ensure the aircraft looks uniform.

Belliveau has been drawing plane designs for the Canadian Forces for 28 years. He said he has been asked to come up with three final drawings for the aircraft.

"A product which is easy to produce but at the same time looks professional and puts us in a good light," he said.

"I want the best looking government airplane in the world," Belliveau added. "Regal? Yeah and polished. And it has to be better looking than the rest."

Records suggest Belliveau has been given a few pointers. The words "Government of Canada" must appear in large letters above the side windows in French and English. Under the cockpit window, phrases from Canada's national anthem will be written: "True North Strong and Free" in English, and in French, "Des plus brillant exploits."

A tender for the paint job will be released after the Prime Minister's Office picks a graphic scheme, which is expected sometime in the next year.

The cost of repainting the plane was deleted from the records obtained by HuffPost. Harper's office, however, has insisted it will be "cost-neutral" since the paint job will be delayed until the plane is up for routine maintenance. The mid-1980s Airbus, which was procured in 1993, is repainted approximately every six years ....

More on the proposed paint scheme for the PM's plane from QMI's David Akin here.

[milnews.ca]

From Question Period yesterday (PDF)

Ms. Joyce Murray (Vancouver Quadra, Lib.):  Madam Speaker, lots of smug talk about fiscal balance, but we have just learned that the Prime Minister has overruled his own Minister of National Defence and is forcing National Defence to repaint a VIP government aircraft because he does not like its colour. The current fleet of aircraft are painted military grey because they are used in critical military operations. The Prime Minister's vanity paint job will make the plane unsafe for those very military operations. Why is the Prime Minister putting his own vanity above the needs of the military? 

Mr. Chris Alexander (Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of National Defence, CPC):  Madam Speaker, apart from being a complete non sequitur with the member's first question, the accusation made is completely unfounded. These changes would only happen in accordance with the regular maintenance cycle of National Defence and if they are cost neutral. These aircraft are repainted every six years and there is no current plan to change the paint scheme for any airbus aircraft."

(....)

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Bruce Stanton): The hon. Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of National Defence is rising on a point of order. 

Mr. Chris Alexander:  Mr. Speaker, a few minutes ago in question period I said in this House, in reply to a member's question, that there was no plan to change the colour scheme on any of the airbus aircraft that the government possesses. I would like to be perfectly clear that there has been no decision in that regard and to ensure that the record reflects that additional clarification.