Author Topic: Ships' Names and Staff Duties, split from Re: HMCS Athabaskan  (Read 34872 times)

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Offline N. McKay

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Re: Ships' Names and Staff Duties, split from Re: HMCS Athabaskan
« Reply #25 on: May 22, 2008, 15:23:56 »
If not using all caps is good enough for a Lt Comd writting an article posted on the DND website, then not using capitals is certainly good enough for this website.

Will you change your mind if I find an example of a Cdr who has posted an article on the DND website with a ship's name in all caps? ;)

Offline MARSBAR

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Re: Ships' Names and Staff Duties, split from Re: HMCS Athabaskan
« Reply #26 on: December 24, 2008, 13:53:35 »
I know that this will be news to all of you but the military is wrong and it is perpetuated because of "well.. that's the way it has always been done". If you look at the root reference for the standard of writing for not only miltary writing, but for all of English, the Concise Oxford, it explicitly says the names of ships are italicized. In fact all "how to write" references I have referred to say the same. In another word it is HMCS Athabaskan vice HMCS ATHABASKAN. The caps for the names of ships are a hold back from the days before computers and handwritten letters were sent to the admin office for typing. When the originator wanted something written in Italics they would capitalize the word and the typer woud then know to use Italics. In fact if you look at all correspondence originated from the CMS, he uses Italics and since I am in the Naval uniform I will follow my admiral. Wikipedia also has a good link. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italics#When_to_use

Cheers,

Steve

Offline Ex-Dragoon

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Re: Ships' Names and Staff Duties, split from Re: HMCS Athabaskan
« Reply #27 on: December 26, 2008, 00:23:23 »
Quote
In fact if you look at all correspondence originated from the CMS, he uses Italics and since I am in the Naval uniform I will follow my admiral.

You can never go wrong if you follow the boss. :D
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Offline Michael O'Leary

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Re: Ships' Names and Staff Duties, split from Re: HMCS Athabaskan
« Reply #28 on: December 26, 2008, 01:56:44 »
You can never go wrong if you follow the boss. :D

Unless you're following so closely that the pressure on your shoulders is his buttocks.   >:D

Offline ltmaverick25

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Re: Ships' Names and Staff Duties, split from Re: HMCS Athabaskan
« Reply #29 on: February 01, 2009, 21:25:02 »
In my relatively short life in the Navy, in every military correspondence I have seen, be it message or just an informal email the ships name was always capitalized. 

Through my masters degree in history, whenever reading anything on naval history the ships name was always in italics.  I actually got feedback on one of my papers indicating that caps is only used in military writing and that in all other settings the proper method is italics. 

Also "The" would be used when referring to The Ottawa but never to say The HMCS Ottawa

Anyway thats what the academic community had to say about it, in the event that anyone cared.

Offline George Wallace

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Re: Ships' Names and Staff Duties, split from Re: HMCS Athabaskan
« Reply #30 on: February 01, 2009, 21:32:57 »
Also "The" would be used when referring to The Ottawa but never to say The HMCS Ottawa

"The Her Majesty's Canadian Ship Ottawa" would sound ridiculous.
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Offline ltmaverick25

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Re: Ships' Names and Staff Duties, split from Re: HMCS Athabaskan
« Reply #31 on: February 01, 2009, 21:35:32 »
Indeed, thats probably why The is only used when not using HMCS..

Offline CountDC

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Re: Ships' Names and Staff Duties, split from Re: HMCS Athabaskan
« Reply #32 on: February 12, 2009, 12:49:36 »
In fact if you look at all correspondence originated from the CMS, he uses Italics and since I am in the Naval uniform I will follow my admiral.

Cheers,

Steve

Interesting - I just went through the RDIMS looking up correspondence from the CMS and the only one that used Italics was to an outside agency.  Everyone that was internal to the CF had the ship name in caps.  Also checked the archive of outgoing correspondence from the CMS Suite with the same result - he uses caps for internal CF.

By the way, The military is not wrong as it sets it owns rules for writing instead of following civilian rules.  Look at the formatting for letters - you won't find it in any business school. There are military rules of writing and then there are outside of military rules, same as we have rules/regulations on dress, conduct, "laws" and discipline that do not correspond to the civilian rules. 
“non-commissioned officer (NCO)” means a member holding the rank of sergeant or corporal.

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Online MARS

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Re: Ships' Names and Staff Duties, split from Re: HMCS Athabaskan
« Reply #33 on: February 12, 2009, 13:15:49 »
I had been taught that the Ship's name, OTTAWA in this case, is a proper noun, just like names of individuals.  If that is the case, does "the" actually work in the absence of "HMCS"? 

For example, and I use Mr. Wallace's name here as an example ONLY (since he posted recently) - not insinuating anything else:

If I were to be briefing my Captain about a meeting in OTTAWA's Wardroom, I would say:

"Captain, you have a meeting with George Wallace in OTTAWA's Wardroom today at 1000"

not:

"Captain, you have a meeting with the George Wallace in the OTTAWA's Wardroom at 1000"

my 2 cents,

Hate to post and run, but it is 1310 and time for "Out-Pipes"

Cheers,

MARS
"Managers do things right; Leaders do the right thing"

Offline CountDC

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Re: Ships' Names and Staff Duties, split from Re: HMCS Athabaskan
« Reply #34 on: February 12, 2009, 13:44:48 »
True MARS but there are sits where you may use "the".

Where are you posted?  The OTTAWA. (say just "Ottawa" and it is assumed you mean the city)

The OTTAWA will sail at 1500H.

I spent 2 years with the ATHAB.
“non-commissioned officer (NCO)” means a member holding the rank of sergeant or corporal.

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Offline Blackadder1916

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Re: Ships' Names and Staff Duties, split from Re: HMCS Athabaskan
« Reply #35 on: February 12, 2009, 17:38:21 »
While it may (or may not) be the tradition of 'navy speak' or simply the affectation of a particular individual, I do recall a "lecture" (or more appropriately semi-drunken babble) nearly thirty years ago when on EX KERNAL POTLACH (a CANUS naval/amphib exercise).  When one of us soldiers aboard HMCS Provider referred to our voyage to San Diego on that vessel as sailing on the Provider, he (and those of us in earshot) was educated that:

It is PROVIDER, not 'the Provider';
The crew (sailors) are posted to PROVIDER;
The crew sail (or serve or live) in PROVIDER;
You people (i.e. soldiers, said with barely concealed contempt) are embarked aboard, you are not 'in' or 'on' or 'with' the ship;
The only things that sailors do in an 'on' position is sit 'on' the head and make 'brown jobs' (i.e. soldiers) or get 'on' top of your sister when we're in port.
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Offline CountDC

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Re: Ships' Names and Staff Duties, split from Re: HMCS Athabaskan
« Reply #36 on: February 13, 2009, 10:03:16 »
and a little more:  http://www.navy.forces.gc.ca/centennial/0/0-c_eng.asp?category=67

  A Canadian warship is known in writing as H.M.C.S. Buckingham or HMCS Buckingham, even, the Buckingham (with her name in italics); but a ship’s name should never appear in quotation marks.  The name when used for the designated class is not in italic and only the first letter is capitalized.  In the Department of National Defence documents, names of ships are written entirely in upper case and are not italicized: HMCS HALIFAX.
Ref: The Canadian Style – A guide to writing and editing. Dundurn Press Limited, Toronto, 1997, p.107.

For those interested in Navy trivia - check out the link. 
“non-commissioned officer (NCO)” means a member holding the rank of sergeant or corporal.

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Offline Privateer

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Re: Ships' Names and Staff Duties, split from Re: HMCS Athabaskan
« Reply #37 on: February 16, 2009, 14:31:02 »
My recollection is that the old practice, still followed by some, is to use the following when speaking (though probably not in writing):  "The OTTAWA" would refer to the ship, while "OTTAWA" would refer to the commanding officer of HMCS OTTAWA; eg. "OTTAWA coming aboard, sir."

Offline MCG

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Re: Ships' Names and Staff Duties, split from Re: HMCS Athabaskan
« Reply #38 on: February 18, 2009, 22:24:40 »

Ref: The Canadian Style – A guide to writing and editing. Dundurn Press Limited, Toronto, 1997, p.107.

I have a funny feeling that reference was already directly cited in this thread .... http://forums.army.ca/forums/index.php/topic,76685.msg715237.html#msg715237

Offline CountDC

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Re: Ships' Names and Staff Duties, split from Re: HMCS Athabaskan
« Reply #39 on: February 19, 2009, 12:09:28 »
I have a funny feeling that reference was already directly cited in this thread .... http://forums.army.ca/forums/index.php/topic,76685.msg715237.html#msg715237

true but that was not what I was posting - just happened to be the end of the quote I was posting from the Canadian Naval Centennial Site which the link takes you to.
“non-commissioned officer (NCO)” means a member holding the rank of sergeant or corporal.

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